The truth and lies of Ukraine Politics and governments

Hey, dear Sergey, you welcome!

But I sm so laughting at this clown - Putin doesn' make independable decisions. Guyes you all depend on his decisions, most unfortunate to you.

I was just giving the Russians a taste of their own medicine.
Who is to argue against the one who's lived and worked in Ukraine then lives in Russia?

DWeathers, monsters are in your head! Wake up to reality!

DWeathers, monsters are in your head! Wake up to reality!

It takes a strong man to admit defeat.
I was quoting the words of Russia's staunchest supporter on Penpal-Gate.
-Igor643

Has Igor gotten the last word yet?

No, anil, that's not any hate. They are equal to normal people and all people on the Earth may have difficult lives irrespective of whether they are LGBT or not. But I see that this topic as a taboo in your country. And Charlie Hebdo's drawings have nothing to do with attracting someone's attention, but just mocking horrible events that have nothing to do with freedom of speech.

Yes, with respect to "other crap", I will give you some of my crap - examples from the history of France:
Filip Le Bel executed templiers and took all their wealth.
Henry de Navarre ripped and massacred catholics in Paris.
The greatest massacre was during the French revolution when Robespierre and not only him guillotinned the monarchists and even their previous allies.
Napoleon came to Russia and killed 580 thousands of his own soldiers.
Today we see French police using gas and waterpipes against the protesters (never done in horrible Russia by the way).
Let's also not forget the French colonization of other countries.
So if we use your logic, we could say that France was most of the time ruled by terrorist government, n'est-ce pas?

You have a very selective indignation. A humoristic picture or a gay parade are for you the summit of aggression against normal people. In the same time the daily bombing on Ukrainian cities that killed men, women, and children are for you a charity work. We also forget that Russian air forces still bomb Syria to maintain another dictator at the power. Your blindness is surely the result of years of propaganda. Yes horrible events happened in the past. Go back to the middle age to prove the terrorist characters of French leaders is completely stupid what you reproach to France happened in worst in your country. I think that France as other countries took the lessons of history. It’s not the case of some Russians who continue to worship Stalin. This dictator remains the all-round champion of mass murder of all times and you have the nerve to give lessons of humanism. All the things we can do now is avoiding that such dramas restart. However Russia keeps the same methods and invade torture and massacre. Your only response is: That was done in the past and in other countries so we can do worst. Personally I look at the present and see who the aggressors are. I will not reproach to a Russian the crimes of Stalin in the past but I will condemn him if he does the same.

Ah, you just hate Russia, now I understand. And it is insane to tell that France took its historical lessons but Russia did not. We took the lesson of perestroika rests very well, loosing 9 mln people in 3 years. And this lesson teaches us to always fight you back. The lesson of WWII is also taken into consideration. You were again burried and the rest thrown away. Like Napoleon. And you are playing with the logic as always. We all know history and perfectly know who started this shit that goes on. This was all inspired by the U.S. They first did it in Chechnya, then in Georgia and then it didn't work out they began working in Ukraine. Installing their biolabs. Preparing the plot of land for NATO base near Sebastopol and Odessa. And niw - you should take responsibility for your own actions against Russia - fund this war hugely, support nazi batalions, give shelters to Ukrainian refugees. You wanted it - you got it. And why are you so angry? Because sanctions work against you. Europe is invaded by Lybians and Iraquis, Afghanis refugees after US meddling and actually killing their leaders. What is USA doing in that part of the world? Killing leaders, installing puppet governments, taking resources. Lybia was a very rich country before, and is now there, do you know? Who actually supports USA - the whole Europe except for maybe small Serbia. So all of you together bring death and despair to people by this ravage. Maybe someone of you were sanctioned for what was done in Vietnam, in Iraq, in Lybia? No, how could anyone sanction St. Europe and St. USA? You don't have any right to moralize the whole world with such a hateful attitude and all this sad story began in 2000 when Putin threw out of the country all foreign oil companies, leaving Caspian and Sakhalin shelves because of international nature. Then you understood that puppet governments of Gorby and Yeltsin have gone to the history. And the campaign against Russia in press began slowly but surely. Then moving NATO closer and closer, etc. And you would always call any president a despot or tyran if he is not your puppet. Very easy.

Ah, you just hate Russia, now I understand. And it is insane to tell that France took its historical lessons but Russia did not. We took the lesson of perestroika rests very well, loosing 9 mln people in 3 years. And this lesson teaches us to always fight you back. The lesson of WWII is also taken into consideration. You were again burried and the rest thrown away. Like Napoleon. And you are playing with the logic as always. We all know history and perfectly know who started this shit that goes on. This was all inspired by the U.S. They first did it in Chechnya, then in Georgia and then it didn't work out they began working in Ukraine. Installing their biolabs. Preparing the plot of land for NATO base near Sebastopol and Odessa. And niw - you should take responsibility for your own actions against Russia - fund this war hugely, support nazi batalions, give shelters to Ukrainian refugees. You wanted it - you got it. And why are you so angry? Because sanctions work against you. Europe is invaded by Lybians and Iraquis, Afghanis refugees after US meddling and actually killing their leaders. What is USA doing in that part of the world? Killing leaders, installing puppet governments, taking resources. Lybia was a very rich country before, and is now there, do you know? Who actually supports USA - the whole Europe except for maybe small Serbia. So all of you together bring death and despair to people by this ravage. Maybe someone of you were sanctioned for what was done in Vietnam, in Iraq, in Lybia? No, how could anyone sanction St. Europe and St. USA? You don't have any right to moralize the whole world with such a hateful attitude and all this sad story began in 2000 when Putin threw out of the country all foreign oil companies, leaving Caspian and Sakhalin shelves because of international nature. Then you understood that puppet governments of Gorby and Yeltsin have gone to the history. And the campaign against Russia in press began slowly but surely. Then moving NATO closer and closer, etc. And you would always call any president a despot or tyran if he is not your puppet. Very easy.

I appreciate you, you tell beautiful tales.from which book)

The Vietnamese consider China as a bully!

Coming from someone from the US, a country that left France fighting against Vietnam for its own benefits before attacking it right after to mess it up again, using poison and many barbaric means, that's a bit too much, don't you think?

Also, if there is no known famine in the US, there are still ghettos and the population is fed with poison. Thankfully to your great country, ghettos came back to France after disappearing for decades; once leaders followed the model of your country...

Bravo, Chinablue! Most of these people are talking about emotional things.

You do the same.. You only say that because it's something you agree with but anytime something goes slightly against your opinion, you start babbling and make a conffuse discourse with call to values, morality and emotions...

Of course you think so. In the propaganda of western media, they try to make you think that Russia is a bad person,

Well, yes, and so does Russia with "western medias".

Latin Americans are criminal elites

Depends. I suppose you refer to the US mostly. In France, it depends on the political leaders and the people. Generally, the ""left"" will be rather sympathetic withh latin America because the US is really crappy there ffor instance. I suppose that in some other places in Europe, people and medias mostly don't give a shit.

Asians, especially our Chinese, are people who make all kinds of evil inventions, and only you Europeans and Americans are good people!

People from the "west" usually consider Japan and Southh Korea to be part of their world,s omehow, and greatly admire these societies... As for China, there are indeed dimwits that will think that Chineses as people are evils and stupid (I'd argue that most racist slurs I've seen came from US citizens again), but despite the strong propaganda, most of people aren't against chhineses, but against the government there in a way that is, indeed, often stupid and full of fairytales. That being said, China, too, is doing propaganda and saying a lot of shit about "western" countries so it's 50-50 in a world of propaganda.
Most disgusting crap is said about North Korea though. You can say anything you want about a country and people you don't know, because nobody will check it out.

Who is the villain? Who is killing and brainwashing all over the world under the banner of freedom and democracy? The history after World War II tells us that Western politicians are totally anti human!

With a few months or years more, eventually will you come to a different conclusion. Yes, western politicians are full of shit, but to believe that Chinese ones are much better is a mistake. So is toi think that politicians are very relevant in such a gobalized and "liberalized" world in my opinion.

Before China started the war against Vietnam, Vietnam opened fire on China for a year, killing civilians and soldiers, and occupying our territory. We had to endure for a year before we started! Who is the devil?

Honestly, this doesn't sound very convincing. It's like saying that Luxembourg is now attacking Germany or, a more realistic case of propaganda: that North Korea is an imperalist country that wants to nuke the world.
Funnily though, what Dweather doesn't says is that the US and China weren't so much ennemies when the goal was to piss off a soviet's ally.

No, you didn't understand me. I said that you, in your seemingly free France, will not be able to say anything you want. Look at Charlie Hebdo's drawings - they laugh at the death of a refugee child who drowned in the sea, they mock at the plane crash with Russian encemble, but do they mock at all at gay parades? But why, the naked manicured men in bras look pretty funny, honestly. Don't you think that? So why Charlie Hebdo never mocks the LGBT community? Tell me, in what normal country - like Russia, China, India, in countries of Latin America, in African countries you could find such a silly disgusting crap published as you do in France? Do you know how many Russians donated to rebuild Notre Dam after fire?

To all other crap I will respond later.

First of all, Charlie Hebdo is a bad News-paper that is primarily known for tragic events... Secondly, yes it has mocked the gay pride once or twice ((for instance : https://charliehebdo.fr/2022/08/societe/astrologie-et-lgbt-jai-larc-en-ciel-en-neptune/). thirdly, other people can mock woke and lgbtqtsdfndsj delirium more or less freely. Fourthly, this has no real impact on how a country is led and is rather a distraction from main problems like people having a decent living.
Also, and despite how bad Charlie Hebdo is, thhe aim is rarely to laugh at dead people, but is a poorly done dark humour... The goal of dark humour is not necessarily to be very funny, but it's to pointing out a problem, making it very obvious and sometimes to make peopel who see/read such an article uncomfortable. It's something very French, but that you can find in Russia as well in a slightly different form and I am sure that you know it.

I wonder what do you call a normal country, especially after including African countries in it...

Yes, with respect to "other crap", I will give you some of my crap - examples from the history of France:
Filip Le Bel executed templiers and took all their wealth.
Henry de Navarre ripped and massacred catholics in Paris.
The greatest massacre was during the French revolution when Robespierre and not only him guillotinned the monarchists and even their previous allies.
Napoleon came to Russia and killed 580 thousands of his own soldiers.
Today we see French police using gas and waterpipes against the protesters (never done in horrible Russia by the way).
Let's also not forget the French colonization of other countries.

Come on. I'm the first to spit on France for how their behaviour has been crappy over time (especially during the Revolution), but you don't put any context and the same can be said about Russia. talkingg about Russia, the great army of Napoléon has been destroyed thanks to Russia, and the whole war also started partly thanks to russia betraying its words and being a fairly unreliable partner for France back then.
Same for colonization, if you don't consider the expansion to the East of Russia as colonization, then I don't know what is colonization... and this one wasn't always as nice as the French one that was fairly less crappy than the anglo-saxon one for instance.

So if we use your logic, we could say that France was most of the time ruled by terrorist government, n'est-ce pas?

Yes it is, a bunch of terrorists and traitors to the people,a nd so is the whole EU 🙂

China and it's people are hugely tied together as the CCP wants most of it's people to hold governmental positions.

China and it's people are hugely tied together as the CCP wants most of it's people to hold governmental positions.

If it was true, then that would be way closer to democracy than the US will ever be.

I appreciate you, you tell beautiful tales.from which book)

What tale, namely?

Lianshen, we could run tons of paper or use bits of internet space with our words here, but it will be like onanism, you know)) sorry for such graphic language! The problem between Russsia and the West existed always, all the time. And this problem is existential. It could take differrent forms in diffirent historical circumstances, but it will exist always. Don't know what you think of the fact that in US Defence Strategy China and Russia are labeled as existential threat to the US national security. So why to whine if we truly become such a threat?

Yes, Chinablue, it can go on and on. What did USA government, what did German, Russian, French, Chineese government? Everybody is talking about own government. I live in Russia it means to me that Russian government is good! I live in France, like Liancshen, everyting French is good for me. If I would be a German, I would prase Scholz. He is a grait lider! We just repeating the shit from the government sources. People don't like to think. We are only the reflections of own reality. It's so hard to get on another level. For some of us it's really impossible to do. anil is a good example.

The problem between Russsia and the West existed always, all the time.

No.

And this problem is existential.

Again, no, it's ideological and sometimes a bit more pragmatic since about the benefits of each country. Germany didn't have much problem with Russia for instance.

Don't know what you think of the fact that in US Defence Strategy China and Russia are labeled as existential threat to the US national security.

Well, they are right to treat Russia and China as an existential threats ebcause that is what they are in the end. If Russia and China are rising like they naturally shhould, then US hegemony will shatter very quickly. Ironically, even the bots leading EU more or less understand this.
What is funny however is how thhe US whine when other countries want to use the same excuses.

I live in France, like Liancshen, everyting French is good for me.

You have problems if you seriously state my pseudonym for this sentence because I am the first one ont his forum to point out how crappy France is, and how corrupted and rotten EU is. Plus I'm currently not there but in another country. However, you rarely criticize Russia on your part and will rather try to find excuses for your government or avoid bothering topic that some other user pointed out... It's easy to say that we are brainwashed and repeat what we are told to when doing nothing to get over it...