lianshen, I have nothing against Russia, China or Iran or North Korea. I only say that their governments are corrupted and criminal. According to you I felt in the Manichaeism, that’s to say I only see the things in good or bad without nuance. May be, but concerning such criminals that threaten even our democracies and represent the return to the reign of the violence I can’t find something good to say about these regimes. You can see yourself what’s happened. Their harmfulness is incomparable with the defects of the occidental systems. As for Billa's wacky remarks, they are enough to discredit himself.Hi dear Anil , bonjour cher Anil ! How are you ? Comment allez vous ? It seems that they did not learn you much about the sens of humor in St Petersburg's troll school of Mr Prigozhin ! Well, if we come back to the real topic of this political forum as would say this dear mr Lianschen or Mr Eric ( Zemmour ), I got my own opinion about this conflict about Russian and Ukrainian governments : well we all know it started in 2014 when Russian government decided to take control of the whole Crimea Peninsula and provoking army uprising among russian community in some districts of the Donbass area. On that way , Russian government used to practise the same method as the german nazis before Ww2 in Austria and former Tschekoslowakia but the roots of this conflict were already existing even if Russian government used to spread oil on them at that time !
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The truth and lies of Ukraine Politics and governments
My opinion is that if Russian and Ukrainian governments really want to put an end to that bloody conflict between their both countries, they should let for a short time, all the Ukrainian territories occupied now by Russian army under the control of the United Nations administration and forces ( Indian, Brasilian and Indonesian troops would be very good for this job ) so as to give time to all refugees to come back home and organizing a real and democratic vote concerning the future of those territories with all populations concerned but of course , the problem is that too many people got a huge interest to make that war last as long as possible!
lianshen, I have nothing against Russia, China or Iran or North Korea. I only say that their governments are corrupted and criminal. According to you I felt in the Manichaeism, that’s to say I only see the things in good or bad without nuance. May be, but concerning such criminals that threaten even our democracies and represent the return to the reign of the violence I can’t find something good to say about these regimes. You can see yourself what’s happened. Their harmfulness is incomparable with the defects of the occidental systems. As for Billa's wacky remarks, they are enough to discredit himself.Yet when asked, you seem unable to conceed any good point to these countries and when someone else seemingly does, you are acting like if it was an outrage. On the other side, you have the audacity to call our countries democracies when they simply are not. They may be less bad on some points, but France is basically following China on many things, usually on the worst side like tracking people, and has near 0 independence making it's already flawed voting system almsot useless.
As for what I see, yep, I saw 2 shitty countries in wars because of another crappy one with its bunch of puppets, the whole thing being at the expense of "normal" people.
I’ am also sad about this war but will definitely not take sides with the aggressors No Lianshen, there is no good point in the Russian politics and that of his allies. I never pretended that democracies are perfect. Democracies allowed the anti-democracy to say their opinions but dictatorship never allowed to the democrats to say what they think. According to you, France is following China on the worst side? Of course it’s another of your lies. What do you think about the Uighur genocide or the repression in Honk Hong? You see two shitty countries at war because of another? That’s propaganda, the only country of shit responsible of this tragedy is Putin’s and his band of killers.
there is no good point in the Russian politics and that of his allies.Which makes you a dogmatic. QED.
I never pretended that democracies are perfect.Admitting there are democracies, which is definitely not the case of France which is a Republic and at very best an oligarchy/plutocracy like most of the systems.
Democracies allowed the anti-democracy to say their opinions but dictatorship never allowed to the democrats to say what they think.By blocking their medias and forming an active propaganda just like the labeled dictatorhips.
According to you, France is following China on the worst side? Of course it’s another of your lies."muh muh lie" is not an answer per se.
What do you think about the Uighur genocide or the repression in Honk Hong?One should be more critical here:
- Is it as the western medias say; or is it different? Can't Uighur or Hong Kongeses live nicely?
While you talk about a genocide, I've never seen it and this topic only became fashion a few years ago whiel other political matters were touchy in Europe... The problem however has been in China for decades without people like you giving a damn about it, so maybe that's also to be looked upon?
What I see there is an ethnocide with Han Chineses being encouraged to migrate to these places and slowly diluate Uighurs and their separatist tendency as well as cutlural difference that sometimes bring instability to be lowered. If this is criticizable, and it is, it is however not as bad as what France as done after the Revolution with literral massacres, including in Vendée and Brittany. Yet, nobody will whine about how France is bad for destroying the cultures of its provinces and still does try. Same for "replacement, it's bad in China, but not in Europe? That's hypocrite.
Now come to Hong Kong. Yep, there are a shit ton of problems in Hong Kong. The very first is that English did absolute shit before retroceding the territory to promote instability through education, which is actually typical of the perfidious Albion...
This apart, there is now a great difference between the territory and "mainland China" making it difficult to incorporate properly. China plays kind of dirty there and it should be pointed out, BUT... how did the repression occur? By implementing policies that are currently ont heir way in EU!
So you dare tell that I'm lying without counter argument, while using HK as an example despite it totally supporting my point..
One of the very interesting point with repression in HG is tracking. HEre, you can have 2 striking examples :
- The multiplication of cameras in the streets on the ground that you have to get more security for citizens. ==> totally happening in France right now.
- Forbidding cash and/or strongly promoting dematerialized way of payment ==> very much happenign in EU with gradual removal of cash on the ground of fighting money laundering.
Another point is using violence disproportionally against people. Hong Kong/China has been pointed out about that, but what about France..? Yep, yep yep yep, same for France. Well, except in Mayotte where the French government left the locals getting invaded by Comorians with colonial motives, transforming the island into a litteral shithole like a kind of GTA area with no water, no proper road... oops, sounds like the Uighur problem in maybe more machiavelic to me.
That’s propaganda, the only country of shit responsible of this tragedy is Putin’s and his band of killers.Propaganda here is essentially to show one side as the bad side and the other as the good one. THat's manichean and dogmatic.
For what I've seen, the US and Europe (though its ass-licking mentality) definitely are responsible for this war as well and the US promoted it. When a crime occurs, I suggest you to look who gets benefits from it.
Mentality of ass liking of the occidentals? You should rather use the words of the Russian propagandists: Nazis, depraved, decadent, junkies. It’s what I heard on Russian propaganda. With such stupid words, May be you are in the same time a victim and a tool of the “hybrid war” that doesn’t use only weapons on the battle field but all the lies as possible to discredit the enemies
Watching the citizen is certainly more elaborated in China, High definition camera can identify all the persons in all the Chinese cities and each citizen has a notation according to his behavior. In China everyone is suspect to be deviant. Even a minister can suddenly disappear as we could see few time ago , forever or come back some time after saying in public words of repentance
This week Shoigu went to North Korea to find help from this marvelous country where three generations of enlightened communist despots have led their people to happiness. You surely dream of such a government for France. Putin also invited some African countries to have a support from them, in exchange several thousand tons of cereal are promised. That’s Russian diplomacy whose mighty army has still not succeeded in conquering little Ukraine.
The benefits of this war will go first to China who will be the winner in all the cases: Even If Russia wins, it will be so weak in front of China and unable to protest against the annexation already in progress in the east side. A victory of Russia would be also a sign of weakening of the USA and of all the democracies in bad position in front of China that became the stronger power in the Far East. If the dictatorships win they will be encouraged to submit more countries. So defeat in unacceptable for Ukraine.
Mentality of ass liking of the occidentals? You should rather use the words of the Russian propagandists: Nazis, depraved, decadent, junkies. It’s what I heard on Russian propaganda. With such stupid words, May be you are in the same time a victim and a tool of the “hybrid war” that doesn’t use only weapons on the battle field but all the lies as possible to discredit the enemies.Europe (and EU), not occident has a mentality of ass licker. It's even a matter of fact that European countries follow, even reluctantly, US. Germany is a prime example of this, which unfortunately leads to its economy getting fucked up. The following sentences only show that you have no argument and are forced to use petty rhetoric. Be careful not to fall for projection when using such words though.
Watching the citizen is certainly more elaborated in China, High definition camera can identify all the persons in all the Chinese cities and each citizen has a notation according to his behavior. In China everyone is suspect to be deviant. Even a minister can suddenly disappear as we could see few time ago , forever or come back some time after saying in public words of repentanceAgain, you are picking a few words and ignoring all the rest here to serve your narrative, but even though, there is a lot to say... It seems, for instance,t hat you are unable to see how China has evolved and that EU, all of a totalitarian instution as it is, is following the exact same path. You talk about credit score, but you forget that EU has implemented a whole green pass to test the water and many people gladly accepted it ("Allons-y quoi !" like a now famous golem would say). In the same vein, EU is forbidding cash, France is multipliying the camera everywhere, the government can now check your bank account at will etc. What you point out, rightfully about CHina, is exactly what happen under your eyes.
Once again, like for Covid, you have a perfect example of what NOT to do and accept, yet, you prefer to whine about others and close the eyes in front of totalitarianism at the door. In other word, you look at the mote in other's eye, but pay no attention to the beam on your own eye. This is either blatant hypocrisy or stupidity.
This week Shoigu went to North Korea to find help from this marvelous country where three generations of enlightened communist despots have led their people to happiness. You surely dream of such a government for France. Putin also invited some African countries to have a support from them, in exchange several thousand tons of cereal are promised. That’s Russian diplomacy whose mighty army has still not succeeded in conquering little Ukraine.Here again, you talk about a country you don't know, relaying clichés you have heard only without taking anything into consideration and use it as an opportunity to cast opprobrium upon me, supporting once again my point consisting in : No argument, only petty phrases against your interlocutor. For the few sentences youwrote still, let's give a look:
- Russia hasn't succeed to beat Ukraine as of now despite its mighty army ==> Ukraine got billions of dollars, equipments, training support, intelligence support from the western block. Russian is, in fact, not at war with Ukraine but basically at war with Ukrain backed by the whole western block, which is fairly useless except to kill more and more people.
Meanwhile, I can't remember how many time I've heard that Russia would be crushed and it's still ehre, even years ago this rant was on. Maybe what you are doing here is, aggain, a projection?
- Putin seeks support from African countries ==> Should he ask support from France? African countries are kind of neutral and sick of Europea (and a whole part of France) and US to the point that some states there get trickeed by China and see this country as their savior and are already pro-russians. Same for latin america... So of course Russia will seek support from potential allies (if it seeks, here I'll jsut assume that you are being honest) and give them counterpart, nobody will help for free... France is nto helping Ukraine for free either and only a child would think so.
- Shoigu wants help from NK ==> It's the anniversary of ceasefire agreement between the 2 Korea... You know, the one in which there has been a huge US inggerence with a tyrant in the south supported by the US to increase its power in Asia? If there is antyhing with Shoigu there, it's mainly symbolic.
The benefits of this war will go first to China who will be the winner in all the cases: Even If Russia wins, it will be so weak in front of China and unable to protest against the annexation already in progress in the east side. A victory of Russia would be also a sign of weakening of the USA and of all the democracies in bad position in front of China that became the stronger power in the Far East. If the dictatorships win they will be encouraged to submit more countries. So defeat in unacceptable for Ukraine.Indeed, China has already won from this war, is already the major power and would have been with or without this war (partly because the West fed China despite warnings and took Russia as the main antagonist while it has never been), but did China made any move to make this war possible? Nope. Now, I invite you to look on the US side , it would be weakening if Russia wins? Why? Maybe because it has intrests in the area? Maybe also because it deliberately made this war possible and pushed for it? Oops.
Also, which democracies are you talkingg about? You seem to only say that to convince yourself that we live in area full of good guys... I can't fathom how our civilizations can be filled with such childish individuals, believing in so many fairytales when a few decades ago, a bunch of people wrote books to warn us about most of what is happening right now.
Edited by Lianshen .
Of course Europe agree with USA in this war to support Ukraine. I would be shocked if my country was in the side of the invaders and killers who threaten our freedom. , It doesn’t need more arguments to justify that. You call that “licking ass”, I call that mutual aid. Now each camp is gone too far to stop this war.
What is this bullshit about the cash ban? Do you live really in France or in Europe? Or maybe you circulate with more than 10000€ in the pocket? Europe is far from the Chinese method. And Yes the Covid crises is a perfect example what not to do: After hiding the problem to the foreign countries China was one of the first to produce a vaccine rather inefficient but was the last to stop the population confinement. Yet they made feast to show their success and even accused the westerners to be at the origin of this disease.
If Ukraine resists to Russia it’s due to occidental material help? Surely but at the beginning of the invasion the Ukrainians resists themselves while all the specialists said that Russian army will take the control of Kiev in two or three days. That clearly show the will of a people.
With Africa Putin only search some votes in the ONU but can’t hope more. Concerning Korea, the difference in standard of living between north and south is enough to know where tyranny is.
Of course Europe agree with USA in this war to support Ukraine. I would be shocked if my country was in the side of the invaders and killers who threaten our freedom. , It doesn’t need more arguments to justify that. You call that “licking ass”, I call that mutual aid. Now each camp is gone too far to stop this war.Interesting to read that, according to you, either you side with or against the "devils". As if a third option wasn't possible at all. Let me ask you: How is Russia a threat to France specifically? Even when it was the USSR, it has absolutely never been a threat.
Eu is already an internal battlefield and we are at war with the US since something like 50 years (even Mitterrand admitted it), and you call submission against our own interests "mutual aid" despite a country like Germany is loosing its industry. Awesome.
What is this bullshit about the cash ban? Do you live really in France or in Europe? Or maybe you circulate with more than 10000€ in the pocket? Europe is far from the Chinese method. And Yes the Covid crises is a perfect example what not to do: After hiding the problem to the foreign countries China was one of the first to produce a vaccine rather inefficient but was the last to stop the population confinement. Yet they made feast to show their success and even accused the westerners to be at the origin of this disease.I pay as much things as I can with cash because it allows me to take better care of my expenses and I've seen very well how 1000€ is too much to spend, yet is totally useless against money laundering: so yes, this is a freedom destroying legislation. Futhermore, you here prove once again that you read only what you want, or you would have noticed that I said how this kind of laws allowed the CCP to track down Honkongeses and jail them during umbrella movement for instance.
You would have noticed as well that I said that this is what China was doing before reaching the point it is at today, hence that France and EU is just a few years behind China on totalitarism you whine so much about. A shame though, nothing comes for people and most of laws are fully retarded within the EU, whereas there are some nuances in China.
If Ukraine resists to Russia it’s due to occidental material help? Surely but at the beginning of the invasion the Ukrainians resists themselves while all the specialists said that Russian army will take the control of Kiev in two or three days. That clearly show the will of a people.Yes, some experts said so the same way some others said that Russia would collapse after sanctions in 2014, after the war. Where is Russia's fall Bruno le Maire announced boldly? Another point to take in consideration with this prediction is how Russia was put as the great devil and main antagonist of the occident while it never has been.
With Africa Putin only search some votes in the ONU but can’t hope more. Concerning Korea, the difference in standard of living between north and south is enough to know where tyranny is.No, that's not the case at all... You seem very unaware that the world isn't revolving around us the West at all anymore. Fiinito the US hegemony and that means that countries from Africa and latin America for instance won't have to accept the deal of either side and will blackmail both side to leech up the most benefits they can from this, and let me tell you this: the West lost Africa, especially France.
As for North Korea, you are only showing that you don't know anything about this country, but, eh, what is it to expect else. You put a difference of standard only based on a political system while South Korea was a tyranny as well and showed development under tyranny.
Lianshen, your arguments are less and less convincing and more and more wacky. Why so much bad faith?
You said EU forbids the cash and in the same time you explain using currently the cash. Explain me this contradiction? You are outlaw?
USSR absolutely never a threat for France? You are joking. I was soldier in 1980 and I remember perfectly the words of our superiors who said at the end of our military service: we will be soon for the next war with the soviets.
I also remember the words of Miterrand who said something like: the pacifist are at west but the missiles are in the east. Russia is a threat for all the European countries as long as Putin is at the head of his country. Could you imagine if Putin attacks for example Poland or Lituania our government saying it’s not a threat for us so let them do?
Do you think the last condemnation of Navalny is really justice? You dare comparing Russia and Europe. What’s about the war crimes and the children abduction made by Russians? I don’t think it’s European methods. May be we are in an economic competition with USA but certainly not in war.
I know enough about Korea to say it’s the worst regime of the world. Like China the family Kim jong made dying several millions of people by repression or starvation.
Lianshen, your arguments are less and less convincing and more and more wacky. Why so much bad faith?Not an argument. Please, ,focus on the topic and answer my questions sometimes.
You said EU forbids the cash and in the same time you explain using currently the cash. Explain me this contradiction? You are outlaw?Let me reiterate for you since it seems difficult:
France and EU have forbidden expenses over 1000€ as well as the end of 500€ banknote production. This is only the begining of a ggeneral tendency to get rid of cash at the benefit of virtual mode of payment, just like in China.
USSR absolutely never a threat for France? You are joking. I was soldier in 1980 and I remember perfectly the words of our superiors who said at the end of our military service: we will be soon for the next war with the soviets.This is common knowledge that it has never been France is too far from the USSR, even at its peak and the nuclear weapon has alays made it warry enough. As for the words of your superiors: Not only were they wrong but also don't imply a treat to France. Shall I also remind you how efficient were the officers of France and how they still are...
I also remember the words of Miterrand who said something like: the pacifist are at west but the missiles are in the east. Russia is a threat for all the European countries as long as Putin is at the head of his country. Could you imagine if Putin attacks for example Poland or Lituania our government saying it’s not a threat for us so let them do?Which shows that even someone betraying the French, supporting the interests of an enemy and increasing tensions in Europe can have some discernement.
You didn't answer the main question after so many weeks of rants: How is Russia a treat to France specifically? How is Putin a treat and not a dictator, if you want, who has been pushed to this war? What allow you to say that Russia will attack Poland or Lituania while Poland is backed, supposedly, by the article 5 of NATO and that NATO -apparently- is a defensive alliance? Are you here admitting that NATO is a tool for the US to spread chaos and ruin Europe?
Glad we agree then.
Do you think the last condemnation of Navalny is really justice? You dare comparing Russia and Europe. What’s about the war crimes and the children abduction made by Russians? I don’t think it’s European methods. May be we are in an economic competition with USA but certainly not in war.If you go this way, may I ask you the same about Assange being chased and punished out of the US? Yes I dare compare Russia to EUSSR.
As for your whataboutism, what about the war crimes and children killed by Ukrainians? What about the war in Iraq? The ((illegal) blocus of Cuba et caetera?
We are absolutely at a war with the US and the current economy in EU is showing. France is turning into a litteral shithole with some cities having nothing to envy from thirdworld countries. There is a huge brain drain with a negative balance of -130k. Researchers almost all leave France and half the ingeeners do so to go either to Germany (although it's probably changing now or in the near future is nothing is done there), the US or Swiss mainly. US is actiely working to braindrain Europe of its brains promoting its own industry and research while mining Europe, promoting war or intimidatingg countries like Germany especially around NordStream).
This is essentially due to traitors in our government who have been in power thanks to boomers. Thanks to them again, we now have a war where we could have prevented it and our economy is definitely going to collapse, we only need a small sparkle, but we already are so dependent on anything that it's fucked up.
I know enough about Korea to say it’s the worst regime of the world. Like China the family Kim jong made dying several millions of people by repression or starvation.Which shows that you know nothing about this country at all. A country isn't necessarily starving because of a government alone (keyword: alone).
With your reasoning Hitler was obliged to invade Europe or Russia, he was the real victim and his attacks was only a preventive war before a planned aggression from France, Great Britain, Russia or USA.
Yes it’s not very cool what did USA with Assange but imagine if a Russian did that with his own country he would disappear rapidly. Like Putin did with a lot of opponents or contradictors. For one Assange in the west there is thousands of people killed for less serious reasons in Russia. The only fact to say your opposition to the war in Ukraine is punished by several years of prison. Assange is still alive and a lot of people can say their support for him even in the west. The children kidnapping by the Russians is a facts, Putin was charged by the international justice for that. May be it’s a way for him to compensate the dramatic demographic crisis or Russia. Russians are so happy that they don’t want to make enough babies and a lot of young people rather well educated flee away they own country.
Banknotes of 500 € it’s a big value for a little piece of papers. I admit that could lead to a lot of abuses, nobody needs that for his current life. Your heavy protestation against the interdiction of the cash is absolutely unfounded, you are the kind of guy who always search a way of protestation even in
“Shall I also remind you how efficient were the officers of France and how they still are...” Remind me this fact, what mean these words? You like speaking for nothing.
For Korea it’s easy to compare the situation of the north and with that of the south. I know now how you mind is twisted. North Korea is a wonderful regime, Putin an innocent victim and China an example of democracy. Iran is a very spiritual country and actually the rebellion in Niger is led by people who want to liberate their country from the French colonialists
Your first sentence being another sophism straight away, I won't answer your message and only said that Hitler wouldn't have been able to start a war without the disastrous policy of France and Britain (which ironically is what you suggested to prevent a war here before turning lenient) or that it wouldn't have been this of a disaster if they were prepared and didn't betray Poland.
As of now, enjoy your sweet world made of black and white.
Edited by Lianshen .
Makhnovtchina, Makhnovtchina
马赫诺起义，马赫诺起义
Tes drapeaux sont noirs dans le vent
你的黑色旗帜在风中飞舞
ils sont noirs de notre peine
它们因我们的苦难而变黑
ils sont rouges de notre sang
它们因我们的鲜血而变红
ils sont noirs de notre peine
它们因我们的苦难而变黑
ils sont rouges de notre sang
它们因我们的鲜血而变红
Par les monts et par les plaines
跨过高山，越过平原
dans la neige et dans le vent
冒着狂风和暴雪
à travers toute l'Ukraine
穿过广袤乌克兰
se levaient nos partisans.
我们游击队向前进
à travers toute l'Ukraine
穿过广袤乌克兰
se levaient nos partisans.
我们游击队向前进
Au Printemps les traités de Lénine
列宁在春季条约中（布列斯特和约）
Ont livré l'Ukraine aux Allemands
将乌克兰交给了德国人
A l'automne la Makhnovtchina
马赫诺在秋季起义
Les avait jeté au vent
把他们都扔进狂风
A l'automne la Makhnovtchina
马赫诺在秋季起义
Les avait jeté au vent
把他们都扔进狂风
Makhnovtchina, Makhnovtchina
马赫诺起义，马赫诺起义
Tes drapeaux sont noirs dans le vent
你的黑色旗帜在风中飞舞
ils sont noirs de notre peine
它们因我们的苦难而变黑
ils sont rouges de notre sang
它们因我们的鲜血而变红
ils sont noirs de notre peine
它们因我们的苦难而变黑
ils sont rouges de notre sang
它们因我们的鲜血而变红
L'armée blanche de Denikine
邓尼金的白军
est entrée en Ukraine en chantant
唱着歌进入乌克兰
mais bientôt la Makhnovtchina
但很快马赫诺起义
l'a dispersée dans le vent.
把他们撕碎在狂风中
mais bientôt la Makhnovtchina
但很快马赫诺起义
l'a dispersée dans le vent.
把他们撕碎在狂风中
Makhnovtchina, Makhnovtchina
马赫诺起义，马赫诺起义
Armée noire de nos partisans
我们黑军的游击队
Qui combattait en Ukraine
在乌克兰英勇战斗
contre les rouges et les blancs
抗击红军和白军
Qui combattait en Ukraine
在乌克兰英勇战斗
contre les rouges et les blancs
抗击红军和白军
Makhnovtchina, Makhnovtchina
马赫诺起义，马赫诺起义
Armée noire de nos partisans
我们黑军的游击队
qui voulait chasser d'Ukraine
誓要把所有暴君
à jamais tous les tyrans.
永远赶出乌克兰
qui voulait chasser d'Ukraine
誓要把所有暴君
à jamais tous les tyrans.
永远赶出乌克兰
Makhnovtchina, Makhnovtchina
马赫诺起义，马赫诺起义
Tes drapeaux sont noirs dans le vent
你的黑色旗帜在风中飞舞
ils sont noirs de notre peine
它们因我们的苦难而变黑
ils sont rouges de notre sang
它们因我们的鲜血而变红
ils sont noirs de notre peine
它们因我们的苦难而变黑
ils sont rouges de notre sang
它们因我们的鲜血而变红