Russia in Peace Politics and governments

Bonjour mr Lianshen ! Comment allez vous ? Dites moi, vous ne seriez pas par hasard le grand frère siamois de l idiot de ce forum à savoir mr Golden Dj parce que la aussi, accuser ces pauvres américains d avoir renverser Kadafi alors que ce sont les tribus révoltés de l est de la Libye ( province de Cyrenaique ) qui ont renversé et exécuter en 2011, ce grand bienfaiteur de l humanité qu était Mouammar Kadafi et ce grâce notamment au support aérien puis militaire et logistique au sol de la France ( votre pays mais je me demande si vous etes réellement Français vu les bêtises que vous répandez ici comme Mr GoldenDj ) et des Britanniques : c est Nicolas Sarkozy pour qui j ai voté en 2007 et 2012 qui a lancé avec Gordon Brown les opérations contre Kadafi , les américains ne nous ont aidé qu au plan logistique et ne sont pas intervenus directement dans ce conflit.
Ps : votez Macron demain ( pour les vrais français bien sûr comme Nico ! )
François

Je n'accuse pas les «pauvres Américains» (douce ironie, quand tu nous tiens), mais le gouvernement américain, nuance. En outre, j'ai dit pays que les pays qui ne se couchent pas devant les USA sont, apparemment, dirigés par des vilains méchants, pas qu'ils sont attaqués par les USA (même si c'est le cas). Ce point éclairci, vous me dites que des tribus ce seraient révoltées, et puis nous, gentils et bons occidentaux, nous serions intervenus dans l'unique but de sauver les pauvres et les opprimés. Au moins, vous admettez l'ingérence d'un gouvernement et d'un président qui est, comme vous le soulignez, et avec BHL (toujours là au bon endroit, lui), à l'origine - officiellement - de l'intervention de 2011. Néanmoins, vous omettez plusieurs choses :
- L'Otan, dirigé par les USA, dont la France et surtout le Royaume Unis ne sont que de vulgaires vassaux.
- A moins que les bombardements soient une forme d'aide «logistique» , bah si, ils étaient là, encore.
- Les USA avec le RU - et c'est un point très important - ont très nettement exagérés la menace que posait Kadhafi aux droits de l'Homme. Pourquoi ? Simplement parce que Kadhafi voulait donner plus d'indépendance aux pays d'Afrique en en prenant la tête et était sur le point d'y arriver.
- Les «révoltés» dont vous parlez avaient des influences terroristes, et on le voit très bien aujourd'hui avec ce qu'est devenue la région. Oupsi, un peu plus d'attentats en France.
- Sarkozy était bien content d'aller taper sur le financeur de sa campagne au vu de sa côte de popularité désastreuse à ce moment là.

Ps : S'il faut se rouler dans ses excréments et sombrer dans les invectives et les insultes d'une platitude à rendre une huître suicidaire, épargnez au moins à vos lecteurs l'affront d'une fausse politesse.
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DeepL translation because I'm too lazy to write again:

I'm not accusing the "poor Americans" (sweet irony), but the American government, nuance. Furthermore, I said that countries that don't kowtow to the US are, apparently, led by bad guys, not that they are being attacked by the US (even if they are). Now that you have clarified this point, you tell me that the tribes would have revolted, and then we, the good and kind Westerners, would have intervened with the sole aim of saving the poor and the oppressed. At least you admit the interference of a government and a president who is, as you point out, and with BHL (always there in the right place), at the origin - officially - of the 2011 intervention. Nevertheless, you omit several things:
- Nato, led by the US, of which France and especially the UK are mere vassals.
- Unless the bombing is a form of "logistical" aid, well, they were there, again.
- The US and the UK - and this is a very important point - have clearly exaggerated the threat posed by Gaddafi to human rights. Why did they do this? Simply because Gaddafi wanted to give more independence to African countries by taking over and was about to do so.
- The "rebels" you speak of had terrorist influences, and we can see this very clearly today with what the region has become. Oupsi, a little more attacks in France.
- Sarkozy was quite happy to go and hit the financer of his campaign in view of his disastrous popularity rating at that time.

Ps: If you have to roll in your own excrement and sink into invective and insults of such platitude as to make an oyster suicidal, at least spare your readers the affront of false politeness.

Pps : Wikileaks shared leaked mails of Hillary Clinton and her "friends", including Sarkozy, showing pretty much what shitstorm the US and its allies, mostly France, created for their own interests in Libya.

Bonne nuit quand même Mr Lianshen à cette heure tardive ! Je suis réellement heureux de voir qu a priori et sous réserve de plus ample vérification de ma part, vous êtes bien un de mes compatriotes
( auriez vous par hasard aussi la chance car c'en est une à mes yeux, d avoir la double nationalité notamment chinoise ! ).
Je suis aussi content d avoir pu accroître vos connaissances historiques ( vous étiez peut être très loin de l Europe ou de l Afrique en 2011 ? ). Enfin, je suis très satisfait de pouvoir vous combattre chaque fois que ce sera nécessaire afin de démontrer aux gens qui nous lisent les contradictions, tentatives de falsification de l histoire voire parfois les affirmations odieuses ( ce n est pas votre cas mais celui de votre acolyte GoldenJd ) de vos écrits respectifs. A bon entendeur salut ! François

I wish you also a very good night at this very late time , Mr Lianshen ! I m really glad to notice that you seem to be at first sight, a real french citizen but I need more
evidences to get really convinced ( would you be enough lucky to have a double citizenship like french and chinese ones ! )
I m also satisfyed with increasing your historical knowledges ( maybe were you living very far from Europe and Africa in 2011 ? ).
At last, I m very satisfied with being able to fight against you each time it will be necessary so as to show to people who are reading us your own contradictions, historical try falsifications and even sometimes your digusting sayings ( which is not your case but this one of your relationship, I mean Mr Golden Dj ). I think that every thing is clear between us !
Yours François

My Dad used to talk mention how bad of a leader Gaddafi was.

Kadhafi made Libya the richest country of Africa and aimed to make the continent independent... He developped healthcare, education, pushed forward a more religious tolerant society, but yes, he was a terrible leader because your father said so. That's not like if Libya now was a terrorist nest in the middle of a dump and that every country "freed" from terrorists and tyrants in the region ended up to be the same.

Or maybe bad leaders and countries = countries and leaders that aren't fond in the US?

Gaddafi was a dictator. but what you say is true, libya was definitely 100 times better than today when he was under his rule. some country in the world cannot be governed by democracy. In order for democracy to exist, the education level of the people must be at a certain level, a benevolent dictatorship is not a bad thing until it reaches this threshold.

Good morning everyone here ! How are you ? So after this small fight with the both twin brothers, I mean mr Golden Dj and mr Lianshen ( I don t know why but I felt like eating some chinese food those last days specially after Mr Golden Dj told us that he had some doubts about the rape of 3 millionth german women and girls in 1945 by soviet soldiers), time has come to talk again if you like about the subject of this forum. Mr Lianshen told me this night that our country was the vassal of the US : that s your opinion and I respect it. France is a member of the Nato since its creation in 1949 and a friend , ally, political and economic partner of the US but as Mr Golden Dj used to notice very well, the political position of France is a little bit different from this of the rest of the Nato members. Why are we a little bit different and for what kind of reason ? Just because we have strong economic interests like the US, China, India, Germany, Russia and UK have. Why do you think that President Macron is spending so much time with Vladimir Putin in order to make him accept a peace compromise with Ukrainian president Zelensky : just because we are the first economic foreign investor in Russia ! I m an employee at the present time for Renault France car maker, this one is controlling 30 % of the russian car market with 500 000 russians employees paid by Renault there and do you know who is still controlling Renault ? French state ! Because of the EU and US last economic sanctions against Russia which prevent the import of material and electronic components to our factories in Moscow and Togliatti, we had to close them. Do you remember two weeks ago, Zelensky and its government used to lauch a worldwide boycott campaign against Renault car maker and even my own work personal computer was striken by anonymous hacker s group ! President Macron made the job for the good and future of the whole french nation and that s why I m voting for him now : we French do not have any available reason to send troops , tanks , airplanes or any other lethal weapons to Ukraina but naturally if we don t have to be in war with Russia, we cannot afford to be on the other way in conflict on that point with the US, Nato and our other partners of the EU.
Have a nice day ! Bye ! Yours François

Not that China hasn't had it's repressive past in Tiananmen Square when students were considered ignorant and made quiet by the adults. Hong Kong never forgot that massacre.

I guess China never learned their history lesson. Did I get it right because no one from China said it was not true. At least Mikhail Gorbachev didn't have to visit to any atrocities to the student body during his time he was there.

My Dad used to talk mention how bad of a leader Gaddafi was.

Kadhafi made Libya the richest country of Africa and aimed to make the continent independent... He developped healthcare, education, pushed forward a more religious tolerant society, but yes, he was a terrible leader because your father said so. That's not like if Libya now was a terrorist nest in the middle of a dump and that every country "freed" from terrorists and tyrants in the region ended up to be the same.

Or maybe bad leaders and countries = countries and leaders that aren't fond in the US?

Gaddafi was a dictator. but what you say is true, libya was definitely 100 times better than today when he was under his rule. some country in the world cannot be governed by democracy. In order for democracy to exist, the education level of the people must be at a certain level, a benevolent dictatorship is not a bad thing until it reaches this threshold.

Yes, it was better, or let's say less worse since Libya wasn't flawless and had many issues still. What you say about dictatorship is rarely told, and I agree with you. A dictatorship isn't necessarily bad, but in our part of the world, we often mix it up with tyranny. I won't extend on the matter, since it would be a digression of a digression, but I find funny how we talk about dictatorship and eventually tyranny in France givent he fact that a Republic isn't a democracy but only had democratic elements, and that the 5th Republic gives more power to the president than absolute monarchy gave to Louis XIV.

@Billa
Please, restrain from mentionning me. I won't give you any more answer as you only responded with another bland insult and provocation while pretending to "teach" and "respect" others' opinion. Don't lower yourself to this point.
Also stop your propaganda for a candidate, nobody cares of Macron out of France, and he is deeply hated in his own country after winning with barely 17-18% of the votes in 2017.

If you know psychology, we will find that we are easily manipulated by the media. So Westerners will easily believe in the Xinjiang massacre and the Hong Kong crackdown. Now, you easily believe the Bucha incident. I can't say it's true, and I'm not qualified to say it's false, neither can you. Unfortunately, your government has blocked today's media such as Russia and TASS. You don't allow the emergence of the second voice. This is sad. This is not democracy. Now, Igor has been blocked by this website, otherwise we will hear different voices instead of blindly blaming Russia. No war is legal, but no war needs no reason. If our warship sailed to Hawaii, what would the United States do? If our plane flew over the English channel, what would Britain and neighboring countries do? The US blockade of South American countries is also obvious to all. They are stationed around Cuba because Cuba has good relations with China and Russia. No hypocrisy, no double standards. Although double standards are the patent of your strong ones.

Igor Samarsky likes playing with his little warships in his spare time and on YouTube, and I wonder if he has any empathy towards real-life casualties or are his views just love of playing battleship?

Not that China hasn't had it's repressive past in Tiananmen Square when students were considered ignorant and made quiet by the adults. Hong Kong never forgot that massacre.

I guess China never learned their history lesson. Did I get it right because no one from China said it was not true. At least Mikhail Gorbachev didn't have to visit to any atrocities to the student body during his time he was there.

Believe that they learned it better than us... During the century of shame, China learnt not to underestimate others, especially the West, while we started to forget our own trick against them and got avery arrogants until now.
As for Tiananmen, I suggest you to look at how information might be modulated in China. Some Chineses probably agree with you (be they right or wrong, I don't know), but they'll more likely not speak out very much, especially without a VPN.

Good morning everyone here ! How are you ? So after this small fight with the both twin brothers, I mean mr Golden Dj and mr Lianshen ( I don t know why but I felt like eating some chinese food those last days specially after Mr Golden Dj told us that he had some doubts about the rape of 3 millionth german women and girls in 1945 by soviet soldiers), time has come to talk again if you like about the subject of this forum. Mr Lianshen told me this night that our country was the vassal of the US : that s your opinion and I respect it. France is a member of the Nato since its creation in 1949 and a friend , ally, political and economic partner of the US but as Mr Golden Dj used to notice very well, the political position of France is a little bit different from this of the rest of the Nato members. Why are we a little bit different and for what kind of reason ? Just because we have strong economic interests like the US, China, India, Germany, Russia and UK have. Why do you think that President Macron is spending so much time with Vladimir Putin in order to make him accept a peace compromise with Ukrainian president Zelensky : just because we are the first economic foreign investor in Russia ! I m an employee at the present time for Renault France car maker, this one is controlling 30 % of the russian car market with 500 000 russians employees paid by Renault there and do you know who is still controlling Renault ? French state ! Because of the EU and US last economic sanctions against Russia which prevent the import of material and electronic components to our factories in Moscow and Togliatti, we had to close them. Do you remember two weeks ago, Zelensky and its government used to lauch a worldwide boycott campaign against Renault car maker and even my own work personal computer was striken by anonymous hacker s group ! President Macron made the job for the good and future of the whole french nation and that s why I m voting for him now : we French do not have any available reason to send troops , tanks , airplanes or any other lethal weapons to Ukraina but naturally if we don t have to be in war with Russia, we cannot afford to be on the other way in conflict on that point with the US, Nato and our other partners of the EU.
Have a nice day ! Bye ! Yours François

France no longer has a place in world politics. The best option for the French people is to keep military investments to a minimum and establish a welfare state .

Not that China hasn't had it's repressive past in Tiananmen Square when students were considered ignorant and made quiet by the adults. Hong Kong never forgot that massacre.

I guess China never learned their history lesson. Did I get it right because no one from China said it was not true. At least Mikhail Gorbachev didn't have to visit to any atrocities to the student body during his time he was there.

Believe that they learned it better than us... During the century of shame, China learnt not to underestimate others, especially the West, while we started to forget our own trick against them and got avery arrogants until now.
As for Tiananmen, I suggest you to look at how information might be modulated in China. Some Chineses probably agree with you (be they right or wrong, I don't know), but they'll more likely not speak out very much, especially without a VPN.

Not that China hasn't had it's repressive past in Tiananmen Square when students were considered ignorant and made quiet by the adults. Hong Kong never forgot that massacre.

I guess China never learned their history lesson. Did I get it right because no one from China said it was not true. At least Mikhail Gorbachev didn't have to visit to any atrocities to the student body during his time he was there.

Believe that they learned it better than us... During the century of shame, China learnt not to underestimate others, especially the West, while we started to forget our own trick against them and got avery arrogants until now.
As for Tiananmen, I suggest you to look at how information might be modulated in China. Some Chineses probably agree with you (be they right or wrong, I don't know), but they'll more likely not speak out very much, especially without a VPN.

China has developed enough. now they have to switch to democracy and establish a people-oriented system or they will be slaves forever

Not that China hasn't had it's repressive past in Tiananmen Square when students were considered ignorant and made quiet by the adults. Hong Kong never forgot that massacre.

I guess China never learned their history lesson. Did I get it right because no one from China said it was not true. At least Mikhail Gorbachev didn't have to visit to any atrocities to the student body during his time he was there.

Believe that they learned it better than us... During the century of shame, China learnt not to underestimate others, especially the West, while we started to forget our own trick against them and got avery arrogants until now.
As for Tiananmen, I suggest you to look at how information might be modulated in China. Some Chineses probably agree with you (be they right or wrong, I don't know), but they'll more likely not speak out very much, especially without a VPN.

Not that China hasn't had it's repressive past in Tiananmen Square when students were considered ignorant and made quiet by the adults. Hong Kong never forgot that massacre.

I guess China never learned their history lesson. Did I get it right because no one from China said it was not true. At least Mikhail Gorbachev didn't have to visit to any atrocities to the student body during his time he was there.

Believe that they learned it better than us... During the century of shame, China learnt not to underestimate others, especially the West, while we started to forget our own trick against them and got avery arrogants until now.
As for Tiananmen, I suggest you to look at how information might be modulated in China. Some Chineses probably agree with you (be they right or wrong, I don't know), but they'll more likely not speak out very much, especially without a VPN.

China has developed enough. now they have to switch to democracy and establish a people-oriented system or they will be slaves forever

That is obvious, a country like china can rule the world if they are democrats

France no longer has a place in world politics. The best option for the French people is to keep military investments to a minimum and establish a welfare state .

I disagree. France could have a place. it's still a good power, and a nuclear power at that. It has a word to say, and it can be an arbitrary, but not with the current government, and not being part of NATO.

China has developed enough. now they have to switch to democracy and establish a people-oriented system or they will be slaves forever

This is considering that democracy is the best political system. I personally think it is not and that the analogy of the ship Socrates/Plato made is a good argument. One must also not forget that people have the power all the time. If Chineses people truly want a different government, they can do it whenever they want, if they are willing to do so, just like any other nations (which don't do much to get more rights and are similarly ensalved - West included).

France no longer has a place in world politics. The best option for the French people is to keep military investments to a minimum and establish a welfare state .

I disagree. France could have a place. it's still a good power, and a nuclear power at that. It has a word to say, and it can be an arbitrary, but not with the current government, and not being part of NATO.

China has developed enough. now they have to switch to democracy and establish a people-oriented system or they will be slaves forever

This is considering that democracy is the best political system. I personally think it is not and that the analogy of the ship Socrates/Plato made is a good argument. One must also not forget that people have the power all the time. If Chineses people truly want a different government, they can do it whenever they want, if they are willing to do so, just like any other nations (which don't do much to get more rights and are similarly ensalved - West included).

yes, rule of the elite is a good thing in theory, but you forget that, The only system that protects people from the state is democracy. You know the story of Caligula, the bloody emperor of Rome. If a cruel narcissist takes over China in the future, he can torture all people for years. At present, all Chinese people are slaves of Xi Jinping and depend on his mercy. Let's just imagine a scenario where Xi Jinping woke up from his bed tomorrow, and he ordered all bald people to die, who can stop him? you also remember the Cambodia dictatorship pol pot, that madman killed everyone who knew how to read

Democracy certainly has its drawbacks. I think every country should choose the most suitable method. A referendum is not a perfect way. Remember the Capitol Hill incident? The Chinese are not masochists. We never think we are slaves. The Chinese government's approach meets the needs of almost every people. You can oppose the president, but why not oppose the capitalists? If China's rich engage in monopoly, they will be punished. At the two sessions, delegates can express their opinions, and the public opinion on the Internet is also different. In addition, people can express their opinions on the website of the State Council. I don't think there are any great disadvantages of one party dictatorship. Our society is more stable and our national cohesion is stronger. Moreover, this is suitable for the development of Chinese mainland. Seeing our development, why do people say we are backward? It's just jealousy. What suits you is the best. Therefore, Deng Xiaoping's thought of one country, two systems is great. We dare to allow the existence of two systems in one country, but the West cannot tolerate socialists in power. Sanders, a socialist of the Democratic Party of the United States, was opposed within the Democratic Party. But is Biden really better than him?

Democracy certainly has its drawbacks. I think every country should choose the most suitable method. A referendum is not a perfect way. Remember the Capitol Hill incident? The Chinese are not masochists. We never think we are slaves. The Chinese government's approach meets the needs of almost every people. You can oppose the president, but why not oppose the capitalists? If China's rich engage in monopoly, they will be punished. At the two sessions, delegates can express their opinions, and the public opinion on the Internet is also different. In addition, people can express their opinions on the website of the State Council. I don't think there are any great disadvantages of one party dictatorship. Our society is more stable and our national cohesion is stronger. Moreover, this is suitable for the development of Chinese mainland. Seeing our development, why do people say we are backward? It's just jealousy. What suits you is the best. Therefore, Deng Xiaoping's thought of one country, two systems is great. We dare to allow the existence of two systems in one country, but the West cannot tolerate socialists in power. Sanders, a socialist of the Democratic Party of the United States, was opposed within the Democratic Party. But is Biden really better than him?

I didn't say the Chinese are sadistic. There are psychopaths in every nation. There are thousands of sadistic Turks, Chinese and Indians. You don't understand what I'm saying. If the powerful people in the state want to persecute you, there is nothing you can do.
Let's set up a scenario. The son of the president of china in 2050 raped your daughter? what can you do just tell me I would like to give an example from my own country and history. Sultan Ibrahim, the sultan of the Ottoman Empire, wanted the married wife of a pasha, and because of this event, a rebellion was started by that pasha.

yes, rule of the elite is a good thing in theory, but you forget that, The only system that protects people from the state is democracy. You know the story of Caligula, the bloody emperor of Rome. If a cruel narcissist takes over China in the future, he can torture all people for years. At present, all Chinese people are slaves of Xi Jinping and depend on his mercy. Let's just imagine a scenario where Xi Jinping woke up from his bed tomorrow, and he ordered all bald people to die, who can stop him? you also remember the Cambodia dictatorship pol pot, that madman killed everyone who knew how to read

It doesn't. Democracy can be a tyranny of the majority over the minorities (France experienced the ethnocide of its minorities, or at least an attempt, a slaughter in Vendée etc.). Futhermore, there are various systems and even at the moment, we often fail to distinguis them. Among the failing ones I can see at the moment, we've mix of plutocracy, technocracy, gerontocracy and maybe cacocracy, kleptocracy or coorporatism... Those are rather a sub-form of oligarchy/autocracy in which only a few are leading (essentially not the best ones or the world might be different).

Other form could be aristocracy (in the sense of "the best", but one has to define what is the best), epistocracy (power to people with skill in a topic, so science to scientists etc), philosopher king (what Plato described, can be seen as Marcus Aurelius), elective monarchy (Poland Lithuania) et caetera. Nothing prevents to invent new ones as well.

I'd add that ""democracy"" is now showing sign of weakness after only a century or two at best... So maybe it is time to wonder where does it fail and why.

Concerning China. If something like this happen (I'd say that France has "democratically" elected people who are enslaving them and who are destroying their rights for 50 years), then I'd like to remember that people always have the power and aren't depending or at the mercy of anyone for violence and tyranny can't stand on the long term. It is the people who are willingly giving a tyrant power and a very interesting book about the topic is "Discourse on Voluntary Servitude" by Etienne de La Boétie.

Democracy certainly has its drawbacks. I think every country should choose the most suitable method. A referendum is not a perfect way. Remember the Capitol Hill incident? The Chinese are not masochists. We never think we are slaves. The Chinese government's approach meets the needs of almost every people. You can oppose the president, but why not oppose the capitalists? If China's rich engage in monopoly, they will be punished. At the two sessions, delegates can express their opinions, and the public opinion on the Internet is also different. In addition, people can express their opinions on the website of the State Council. I don't think there are any great disadvantages of one party dictatorship. Our society is more stable and our national cohesion is stronger. Moreover, this is suitable for the development of Chinese mainland. Seeing our development, why do people say we are backward? It's just jealousy. What suits you is the best. Therefore, Deng Xiaoping's thought of one country, two systems is great. We dare to allow the existence of two systems in one country, but the West cannot tolerate socialists in power. Sanders, a socialist of the Democratic Party of the United States, was opposed within the Democratic Party. But is Biden really better than him?

#FreeTaiwan