Opinion: Homophobia. Politics and governments

Yes I'm a proud homophobe. I guess you should ask your question in a place where homosexuality is punished with death penalty, and not to people inwhich homophobia is more or less illegal and punished.

Hello, I read your discussions with the other people on this forum and I honestly don't think you're a "proud homophobe", you're just being argumentative for the sake of it. All you're doing is defending homophobia by bringing up other topics. So, would you actually tell a gay person to their face, that you hate them so much you think they deserve to be discriminated against?

Yes I'm a proud homophobe. I guess you should ask your question in a place where homosexuality is punished with death penalty, and not to people inwhich homophobia is more or less illegal and punished.

Hello, I read your discussions with the other people on this forum and I honestly don't think you're a "proud homophobe", you're just being argumentative for the sake of it. All you're doing is defending homophobia by bringing up other topics. So, would you actually tell a gay person to their face, that you hate them so much you think they deserve to be discriminated against?

That was ironic and I thought it was obvious enough in my first post considering I mentionned that homophobia is illegal in many countries among the most represented here.

As for me defending homophobia, please, show me when did I have defended anything like that. At very best, I defended pedophilia because someone said that sexuality is of a privacy matter (more or less), and yet, I'd argue that it's very subjective. The other thing I did consisting in denying that homosexuals = LGBTQ community.

Finally, yep, no problem, I'd tell someone recording me and being able to send me to jail that I'm a very very hateful person and that I'd stone them all if I had the possibility.

Finally, yep, no problem, I'd tell someone recording me and being able to send me to jail that I'm a very very hateful person and that I'd stone them all if I had the possibility.
Why?

That was ironic and I thought it was obvious enough in my first post considering I mentionned that homophobia is illegal in many countries among the most represented here.
What was ironic?
I can't find where you said homophobia is illegal in many countries (which it isn't), so I'm going to assume you meant homosexuality is illegal in many countries. I don't know why you brought this up. Just becuase countries are punishing people for their sexuality, which they cannot choose nor control, does not mean that those actions are ok in any way nor does it justify being homophobic. Also you said "among the most represeted here", if by here you mean this forum, then I saw mostly european flags in the accounts responding. Europe is a continent in which homosexuality is illegal nowhere. Though that isn't to say all eurpean countries are safe for LGBTQ+ people.

As for me defending homophobia, please, show me when did I have defended anything like that. At very best, I defended pedophilia because someone said that sexuality is of a privacy matter (more or less), and yet, I'd argue that it's very subjective. The other thing I did consisting in denying that homosexuals = LGBTQ community.
If you are saying "I am a proud homophobe" and then disagreeing with people telling you why thats wrong. That is inherently defending homophobia.
Also, you should not be equating pedophilia with homosexuality. As someone already said, there's a key difference and its consent. You can act on sexuality if it is consensual, pedophilia is never consensual. The way you phrased your sentence "at the very best, I defended pedophilia" makes it sound like you think pedophilia is more ok than homosexuality. I truly hope you don't think that.

Homosexuality is part of LGBTQ+. I'm not sure what you like the acronym is but the first two letters are Lesbian and Gay. Those are homosexual orientations.

Finally, yep, no problem, I'd tell someone recording me and being able to send me to jail that I'm a very very hateful person and that I'd stone them all if I had the possibility.
Ok so firstly, fuck you. Maybe that is not a polite way to argue but you literally said you would stone people because of something THEY CANNOT CONTROL IN ANY WAY. So then why exactly do think that?

Secondly, if you wrote this trying to be provocative or as a joke, fuck you. It is not a subject you can joke about because for a lot of people it is a reality. There are 11 countries in which people can be killed for a private, consensual relationship if it is same-sex.

What was ironic?
Claiming to be a proud homophobe.

I can't find where you said homophobia is illegal in many countries (which it isn't)
Among the most represented here*. It is, in EU and in the first message, which happens to be the one you quoted, here:
inwhich homophobia is more or less illegal and punished.

Though that isn't to say all eurpean countries are safe for LGBTQ+ people.
Please, explain me why do you bring the LGBT here, I thought it was about the homosexuals.

If you are saying "I am a proud homophobe" and then disagreeing with people telling you why thats wrong. That is inherently defending homophobia.
Contradicting someone doesn't mean hating someone or defending the right to hate someone. That's a very binary position, in my opinion, to assume that it's homophobic. In that context, the disagreement was mostly on the argument rather than on the intention (one shouldn't be homophobic because homosexuality is a sexual orientation or a "sexual preference"), and as far as I know, "good intentions" aren't enough make someone right. To illustrate it, let's use the an example on the global warming:
If I say that I can perceive the effect of global warming because it's 30°C in Finalnd in December, then I'm just showing that I don't understand what is global warming about because I mix up meteorology and climatology. If someone point it out, it doesn't meant hat this person is climatosceptic, but rather that my argument was poor.

Hope you can see, now, than being "nice" doesn't make an argument inherently good.

Also, you should not be equating pedophilia with homosexuality.
I didn't, I just used it as a sexual orientation. I just happened to say, too, that homosexuality also was illegal and seen as a mental illness in the past just liek pedophilia is. I haven't said less, I haven't said more. As for consent, that's an easy argument but nobody is able to say when is a person able to give a full consent and when does pedophilia starts. Strangely, this seems to be highly subjective.

makes it sound like you think pedophilia is more ok than homosexuality
You read what you want, but, again,a s far as I know, being "at best" defending pedo, doesn't mean I look down or push down homo.

Homosexuality is part of LGBTQ+. I'm not sure what you like the acronym is but the first two letters are Lesbian and Gay. Those are homosexual orientations.
LGBT is more than just sexual orientation, it refers to itself as a "community", it's an amalgam of several (or plethora) of things inculding sexual orientations. So now, would you tell me that because you happen to be homosexual, you have to bbe part of that community? Sounds like I have to eat baguette because "I'm French".


Ok so firstly, fuck you. Maybe that is not a polite way to argue but you literally said you would stone people because of something THEY CANNOT CONTROL IN ANY WAY. So then why exactly do think that?

Secondly, if you wrote this trying to be provocative or as a joke, fuck you. It is not a subject you can joke about because for a lot of people it is a reality. There are 11 countries in which people can be killed for a private, consensual relationship if it is same-sex.

I stabbed him, but he pinched my cheeks.
I didn't say that I would stone anyone, please, read my whole set of messages again. If you still have issue with it, what should I write more? That I would crush them with a giant mecha rainbow mouse with a snake instead of the tail and some bat ears?

If you have issue with provocation, jokes, sarcasm, dark humour or anything else, I'm afraid that your viewpoint, your ideas and your person generally speaking isn't hegemonic yet. So please, forgive me my la.ord.y, this buffoon will not take your or anyone's feelings into consideration when writing.


Finally, yep, no problem, I'd tell someone recording me and being able to send me to jail that I'm a very very hateful person and that I'd stone them all if I had the possibility.


Why?
That's the question... Why would anyone do or say that seriously? Can someone think that many people would joyfully say such things in the streets or even online taking the risk to be in troubles with justice..? Taken to the extreme, would you expect a murdered to come and sayu "yes, I want to kill that dude with my big knife, AHAHAH, I am a villain, Muahahahahah"?
I think that it's a bit unrealistic and that most of people can be stupid, but not enough to act this way, especially with tool to report such behaviours (in France, we have the following website to report many cases, including homophobia : https://www.internet-signalement.gouv.fr/PortailWeb/planets/Accueil!input.action )

I also think that a good part of the people would say that they are homophobic because of some opinions they hold, simply because they accept homosexuality to some extent and refuse some part of it probably like some people would yell that something is homophobe very quickly.

I don't know if I made it more clear, but a question like "Would you proudly say that you're an offender/criminal?" is a bit of a nonsense to me...

My opinion on that would be: i don't approve the idea of homosexuality hence dont support it. I have my reservations, but based on that i don't hate people who practice it or support it. They have their arguements, their right . I also am against homophobia based on that and i think people bashing others for not approving of homosexuality are at wrong too.
I appreciate your opinion, I watched a controversial video that was taken down from YouTube but posted again by someone else, it's message was about personal preference between two girls, it was not to take everyone's preferences into account. It claims that we have the right to make our own decisions no matter how we are judged by the public for it. Reguarding the girls one had a lesbian friend who was very involved in her life. Both were best friends on a cozy level, and one day the friend decided to ask her question in private to her. She was asked by her friend if she would accept a homosexual relationship in her own life and the only aswer she could come up with was "No". It turned out later that everyone in school was giving her looks of contempt and scrutiny. Later she overheard them speaking terrible things about her being a Homophobe. That made her feel bad over her answer because she realized that her friend was making her move on her and she did not know all this time.

I would like to add something to the general discussion here.
I write German and have it translated into English, so one or two phrases might be questionable.
It is everyone's right to be homophobic.
That is not the question, but the question is whether he is within the legal provisions that apply to his state.
Further: I did not choose to be gay. Sexual preference is innate.
This is also true of paedophilia. You cannot 'cure' a paedophile.
He is just unlucky compared to me. I was able to find a partner without coming into conflict with the law.
The paedophile can't. By the way, these are superimposed preferences.
So if you assume that 95% of people are heterosexual and 5% are homosexual, that also applies to paedophiles.
95% of paedophiles are heterosexual and 5% homosexual, even if the media reality gives a different impression.
The age of consent is a social consensus.
But that applies to many things: voting age, juvenile criminal law, age of marriage are just a few other examples.
No one will call a medieval king a paedophile in retrospect,
because he had to marry a 12-year-old at 16 and certainly didn't wait until - yes, until when? - waited.
So if someone rejects me because they can't accept that I'm gay, be my guest. I don't care.
Anyway, I'm glad I live in a society where I can live the way I was born to live.
We should do everything we can to preserve this privilege of our society.
Speech bubbles do not help us in this.

To everyone in this thread who thinks homophobia is ok, or a right, or at all justified.
ALSO TW for mention of suicide

First, a general definition of homophobia : fear, hatred, discomfort with, or mistrust of homosexuality or gay people.

Heres a good quote:
While not everyone who is homophobic engages in discriminatory behaviour towards gay men and lesbians they are more likely to contribute to a general attitude of intolerance. Thus derogatory and insulting remarks about gay men and lesbians by, for example, prominent radio personalities reinforce intolerance and appear to sanction discriminatory behaviour.
From this paper: https://australiainstitute.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/WP79_8.pdf

Essentially, someone who is not openly homophobic will not disagree with someone making homophobic remarks, they may contribute to a general air of intolerance or simply ignore/trivialise the struggles faced by gay people.
And this has massive impacts, especially on LGB (lesbian, gay, bisexual) youth.

Here is a very good source for statistics on this: https://www.thetrevorproject.org/resources/preventing-suicide/facts-about-suicide/
Here are the key points for what this forum is discussing:
- Suicide is the 2nd leading cause of death among young people ages 10 to 24.
- LGB youth are almost five times as likely to have attempted suicide compared to heterosexual youth
-LGB youth who come from highly rejecting families are 8.4 times as likely to have attempted suicide as LGB peers who reported no or low levels of family rejection.
- Each episode of LGBT victimization, such as physical or verbal harassment or abuse, increases the likelihood of self-harming behavior by 2.5 times on average.

So you can make arguments equating homosexuality to pedophilia and act like your posing a profound moral question, but the fact is you are defending a "right to be homophobic" and the right to be homophobic is the right to contribute to a harmful societal attitude. An attitude of discrimination that causes high rates of self harm and suicide, espicially in teenagers, because of something inate and uncotrollable.

If you think that is okay, please reassess your morals.


You don't get anywhere with appeals to morality. There were or are precisely moral justifications on the basis of which homosexuals were discriminated against for centuries and still are.
And the German law on protection against conversion treatment is only a year old. Until then, it was legitimate to send gay boys for re-education.
Surely the guys who ran these institutions also had moral justifications at the ready.
There are two options from my point of view: Offer help to young people and do it in a way that they can accept that help. And model it.
In my small village, everyone sees that there are two men living together, including the children and young people. And they see that we are part of the village and are not insulted or otherwise discriminated against.

Essentially, someone who is not openly homophobic will not disagree with someone making homophobic remarks, they may contribute to a general air of intolerance or simply ignore/trivialise the struggles faced by gay people.
If you don't ignore, then you're a bad guy, but if you ignore, then you're a bad guy? Isn't there any way else than supporting openly people for a sexual orientation (hence highlighting them...) to be from the "good guys"? Aren't people thinking that by highlighting a thing or a person, you could eventually trigger a behaviour from individual who would just not give a damn otherwise?
Also, if gays struggles with a part of their life, aren't other "communities" as well ? One could be tempted to say that focusing so much on minorities' rights and issues is just a way not to ignore problems faced by a majority and increasing social issues. After all, in France, feminist movements, gay movements, minorities movements, and May 68 globally speaking are all part of -or at list strongly correlated- the americanization of the society in France and the degradfation of the middle class, of the welfare, the healthcare, the education system and environment of the country.

So I, too, could just show how virtuous I am by saying that I care about people and just say that if you support gays more than others, thenyou are unvirtuous and making :millions people struggling with a problem supported by bored and decadent bourgeois. Would it be of any use or make anyone supporting my ideas though..?

- Suicide is the 2nd leading cause of death among young people ages 10 to 24.
- LGB youth are almost five times as likely to have attempted suicide compared to heterosexual youth
-LGB youth who come from highly rejecting families are 8.4 times as likely to have attempted suicide as LGB peers who reported no or low levels of family rejection.
- Each episode of LGBT victimization, such as physical or verbal harassment or abuse, increases the likelihood of self-harming behavior by 2.5 times on average
What's good with statistics is that you canmake them say whatever you want if you don't really care about it.
1 - Z generation commit suicide, no reason why they do that, just eat it. No place of reference either, it must be globally then..? Well, then you need to check the source to make sure, but the link doesn't work and if you have little to no time to check, then at best, you'll find out that it's in the US. Isn't there anything to explain why suicide is so important?
2 - If it's bigger, it's because of discrimination, no other reason could exist.
3 - What about heterrosexuals being rejected? No data on them... Must eb the same either they are rejected or not, and they won't be rejected for sure because LGB have the monopoly of being rejected by their family.
4 - What about others? Aren't fat, poor, short, skinny, different people more likely to hurt themselves or does it only concern homo again? What numbers for the others? and once again, it seems to be in the US.

Moreover, some studies don't seem to say that, but rather that some behaviour or things could improve quality life of the "LGB" by lowering negative effects such as family rejection (but once again, it's a 10years+ study, maybe it has been updated since then, especially with such a trendy topic)

So you can make arguments equating homosexuality to pedophilia
There was none. Only thing that has been said is that both are sexual orientation. A pedo loves children, a gay man loves men, a straight man loves women, a gerontophile loves elderies and a mechanophile loves objects.

and act like your posing a profound moral question
When you talk about a book instead of the last trend on tiktok, you're not being an intellectual the same way that there was no profound moral question here when asking why a sexual orientation is ok but not another one if no one should care about people's privacy.

but the fact is you are defending a "right to be homophobic"
No, but once again you are free to read others the way you wish, the same way that I'm free to think that you're increasing homophobia because you disagree with me and I want to believe so. That makes no sense because you claim to fight homophobia? Still my right the same as yours is to call other homophobic.

the right to be homophobic is the right to contribute to a harmful societal attitude. An attitude of discrimination that causes high rates of self harm and suicide, espicially in teenagers, because of something inate and uncotrollable.
If it's only teenagers, then it's fine because less people = less environmental problems. Let's harass and push more people to suicide to save the planet. Plus if there is no people, there is no discrimination anymore, hence solving another problem. What a wonderful way to do things.
Once again, you can tell others that they are contributing to harmful societal attitude, the same way as I could accuse you to do the exact same thing on a wider scale (focusing on issues that contributes to increase problem faced by the middle classe by driving the attention away from a ton of shitty policies in the West, hence increasing issues on minorities as well in the end unless they are from another class) and contributing to cultural hegemony (since it's typically an anglosaxon model that has been widespread within few decades).

If you think that is okay, please reassess your morals.
Yes, reassess your morals, don't do slave morality, or do it? Dunno.

As a society we've been discussing the morality of being gay all throughout our history.

Can any of you raise your hand and say "Yes, I'm a proud homophobe"?

Yes I'm a proud homophobe. I guess you should ask your question in a place where homosexuality is punished with death penalty, and not to people inwhich homophobia is more or less illegal and punished.

I think homophobia is disgusting, like why would someone else’s sexuality bother you? ( I don’t mean you, I meant you as in a general term)
Aren't pedophiles bothering you?
That's not a sexuality, my dear. That's abussing of someone who does not have the conscience or capacity (not phisical nor psycological) to decide If they want or not to have sex. Not consented nor possible in any way. Do not compare homosexuality with being a criminal xdxd Have a nice day bestie

As a society we've been discussing the morality of being gay all throughout our history.

Can any of you raise your hand and say "Yes, I'm a proud homophobe"?

Yes I'm a proud homophobe. I guess you should ask your question in a place where homosexuality is punished with death penalty, and not to people inwhich homophobia is more or less illegal and punished.

I think homophobia is disgusting, like why would someone else’s sexuality bother you? ( I don’t mean you, I meant you as in a general term)
Aren't pedophiles bothering you?
That's not a sexuality, my dear. That's abussing of someone who does not have the conscience or capacity (not phisical nor psycological) to decide If they want or not to have sex. Not consented nor possible in any way. Do not compare homosexuality with being a criminal xdxd Have a nice day bestie
Yet you didn't answer to the questions I asked more than once before claiming so.

As a society we've been discussing the morality of being gay all throughout our history.

Can any of you raise your hand and say "Yes, I'm a proud homophobe"?

Yes I'm a proud homophobe. I guess you should ask your question in a place where homosexuality is punished with death penalty, and not to people inwhich homophobia is more or less illegal and punished.

I think homophobia is disgusting, like why would someone else’s sexuality bother you? ( I don’t mean you, I meant you as in a general term)
Aren't pedophiles bothering you?
That's not a sexuality, my dear. That's abussing of someone who does not have the conscience or capacity (not phisical nor psycological) to decide If they want or not to have sex. Not consented nor possible in any way. Do not compare homosexuality with being a criminal xdxd Have a nice day bestie
Yet you didn't answer to the questions I asked more than once before claiming so.
I dont think anyone should be proud of being homophobic and of course, I condem pedophyle

As a society we've been discussing the morality of being gay all throughout our history.

Can any of you raise your hand and say "Yes, I'm a proud homophobe"?

Yes I'm a proud homophobe. I guess you should ask your question in a place where homosexuality is punished with death penalty, and not to people inwhich homophobia is more or less illegal and punished.

I think homophobia is disgusting, like why would someone else’s sexuality bother you? ( I don’t mean you, I meant you as in a general term)
Aren't pedophiles bothering you?
That's not a sexuality, my dear. That's abussing of someone who does not have the conscience or capacity (not phisical nor psycological) to decide If they want or not to have sex. Not consented nor possible in any way. Do not compare homosexuality with being a criminal xdxd Have a nice day bestie
Yet you didn't answer to the questions I asked more than once before claiming so.
I dont think anyone should be proud of being homophobic and of course, I condem pedophyle
That was my questions. They were related to the way pedophilia is defined, yet you come with your personal definition that you don't bother to share and claim that it's bad for whatever reason you imagine, just like some people are monsters and some aren't based on very subjective and narrow mindset.

As a society we've been discussing the morality of being gay all throughout our history.

Can any of you raise your hand and say "Yes, I'm a proud homophobe"?

Yes I'm a proud homophobe. I guess you should ask your question in a place where homosexuality is punished with death penalty, and not to people inwhich homophobia is more or less illegal and punished.

I think homophobia is disgusting, like why would someone else’s sexuality bother you? ( I don’t mean you, I meant you as in a general term)
Aren't pedophiles bothering you?
That's not a sexuality, my dear. That's abussing of someone who does not have the conscience or capacity (not phisical nor psycological) to decide If they want or not to have sex. Not consented nor possible in any way. Do not compare homosexuality with being a criminal xdxd Have a nice day bestie
Yet you didn't answer to the questions I asked more than once before claiming so.
I dont think anyone should be proud of being homophobic and of course, I condem pedophyle
That was my questions. They were related to the way pedophilia is defined, yet you come with your personal definition that you don't bother to share and claim that it's bad for whatever reason you imagine, just like some people are monsters and some aren't based on very subjective and narrow mindset.
I think almost everything is questionable, but when It involves going against someone's will it's abuse. Not an oppinion, facts

As a society we've been discussing the morality of being gay all throughout our history.

Can any of you raise your hand and say "Yes, I'm a proud homophobe"?

Yes I'm a proud homophobe. I guess you should ask your question in a place where homosexuality is punished with death penalty, and not to people inwhich homophobia is more or less illegal and punished.

I think homophobia is disgusting, like why would someone else’s sexuality bother you? ( I don’t mean you, I meant you as in a general term)
Aren't pedophiles bothering you?
That's not a sexuality, my dear. That's abussing of someone who does not have the conscience or capacity (not phisical nor psycological) to decide If they want or not to have sex. Not consented nor possible in any way. Do not compare homosexuality with being a criminal xdxd Have a nice day bestie
Yet you didn't answer to the questions I asked more than once before claiming so.
I dont think anyone should be proud of being homophobic and of course, I condem pedophyle
That was my questions. They were related to the way pedophilia is defined, yet you come with your personal definition that you don't bother to share and claim that it's bad for whatever reason you imagine, just like some people are monsters and some aren't based on very subjective and narrow mindset.
I think almost everything is questionable, but when It involves going against someone's will it's abuse. Not an oppinion, facts
You're going against my will heren, hence it's abuse. Hmm...

As a society we've been discussing the morality of being gay all throughout our history.

Can any of you raise your hand and say "Yes, I'm a proud homophobe"?

Yes I'm a proud homophobe. I guess you should ask your question in a place where homosexuality is punished with death penalty, and not to people inwhich homophobia is more or less illegal and punished.

I think homophobia is disgusting, like why would someone else’s sexuality bother you? ( I don’t mean you, I meant you as in a general term)
Aren't pedophiles bothering you?
That's not a sexuality, my dear. That's abussing of someone who does not have the conscience or capacity (not phisical nor psycological) to decide If they want or not to have sex. Not consented nor possible in any way. Do not compare homosexuality with being a criminal xdxd Have a nice day bestie
Yet you didn't answer to the questions I asked more than once before claiming so.
I dont think anyone should be proud of being homophobic and of course, I condem pedophyle
That was my questions. They were related to the way pedophilia is defined, yet you come with your personal definition that you don't bother to share and claim that it's bad for whatever reason you imagine, just like some people are monsters and some aren't based on very subjective and narrow mindset.
I think almost everything is questionable, but when It involves going against someone's will it's abuse. Not an oppinion, facts
You're going against my will heren, hence it's abuse. Hmm...
In sexual matters? Well, of course

How many people actually support the LGBTQ+ community on here?