Yes the USSR did have a part in fighting Hitler and the Axis Powers."Russia have forgot and do not want to remember it was the Americans who saved them from kept on being attacked by the German during World War II , ............... We really did supplied the Russian with the majority of the needed Weapons they needed to run the Germans out of Russia, and now look how they're responding by threating to activate their nuclear force to use against the United States and our allieds NATO "Please don't talk nonsense. Read the story before writing. The USSR made a huge contribution to the victory in World War II. It was the Soviet Union that saved Europe from Hitler, at the cost of the lives of people you never dreamed of. China also made an invaluable contribution to the victory in World War II, keeping Japan from invading the territory of the USSR, preventing the opening of a second front. Yes, the United States supplied cars and weapons to the USSR, but it also supplies them to Germany. Hjalmar Schacht, who spoke at the Nuremberg trials, told the lawyer: If you want to try German industrialists, then put US businessmen next to them.
I am not saying that the USSR won the war on its own. Each of the countries of the anti-Hitler coalition contributed to the victory. But you belittle the contribution of the USSR and say that the United States saved the USSR from defeat - this is real nonsense.
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We should precise the real facts of the Second World War, It might be wise to specify the ambiguous attitude of the USSR during the Second World War. Of course the soviet soldiers were a determinant point for the victory but in reality the Soviets did not care about the fate of Europe, they only entered the war when Hitler attacked them. Before they were very good friends. Nazis and Soviets signed the German Soviet pact in August 23, 1939 followed by two other agreements on August 28 and September 28. Relations between the two dictatorships were then in very good shape until Hitler launched Operation Barbarossa to invade Russia. With this pact Stalin could take the half of Poland, the Baltic countries some other territories in Rumania and Moldavia and could attack Finland with the accord of Hitler. On the side of Hitler this shameful pact allowed him invading west Europe and let the United Kingdom alone in Front of the German army. So if the Soviets were a big element of the victory. Their intervention only came when the Nazis attacked them. It was first a betrayal between dictators. If Hitler had been a little smarter he should have avoided attacking the USSR and dealt with ending the conflict with Great Britain.
The USSR and Germany were not friends. Communism did not share the ideology of Nazism, and Nazism did not share the ideology of Communism. Hitler hated Jews and communism.
Therefore, you can not call them allies.
The treaty signed on 23 August was not an allied agreement; the parties only pledged to refrain from attacking each other and to remain neutral in the event of an attack by a third country on one of them.
The USSR understood that a war with Germany was inevitable and tried to delay the attack, which happened, a non-aggression pact between Molotov and Ribbentrop was signed. Stalin understood that the Red Army was considered insufficiently strong, the USSR sought to avoid being drawn into a pan-European war, he began to pursue a policy of collective security, trying to contain Nazi Germany through cooperation with the League of Nations and the Western powers. The attitude of the USSR towards the League of Nations and international peace has changed. The Western powers believed that war could still be avoided, and the USSR, greatly weakened by the "purges", could not act as the main military participant
We should precise the real facts of the Second World War, It might be wise to specify the ambiguous attitude of the USSR during the Second World War. Of course the soviet soldiers were a determinant point for the victory but in reality the Soviets did not care about the fate of Europe, they only entered the war when Hitler attacked them. Before they were very good friends. Nazis and Soviets signed the German Soviet pact in August 23, 1939 followed by two other agreements on August 28 and September 28. Relations between the two dictatorships were then in very good shape until Hitler launched Operation Barbarossa to invade Russia. With this pact Stalin could take the half of Poland, the Baltic countries some other territories in Rumania and Moldavia and could attack Finland with the accord of Hitler. On the side of Hitler this shameful pact allowed him invading west Europe and let the United Kingdom alone in Front of the German army. So if the Soviets were a big element of the victory. Their intervention only came when the Nazis attacked them. It was first a betrayal between dictators. If Hitler had been a little smarter he should have avoided attacking the USSR and dealt with ending the conflict with Great Britain.Why didn't the USSR enter the war earlier?
The USSR made attempts to create an anti-Hitler coalition back in the spring and summer of 1939. Read about the Moscow negotiations in 1939, where there were three parties: Great Britain, France and the USSR. France was more cautious about starting military negotiations before a political agreement was reached. In addition, both London and Paris knew that Poland and Romania categorically objected to the passage of the Red Army through their territory. As a result, London postponed the solution of this issue for the time being, discussing in the meantime whether to interrupt negotiations with the USSR altogether.
Continue?
In March 1939, Germany annexed Klaipeda from Lithuania with the tacit consent of the major powers (France and Great Britain).
The Munich Agreement of 1938 (also called the Munich Agreement) is an agreement between Germany, Great Britain, France and the Kingdom of Italy, drawn up in Munich on September 29, 1938 and signed on the night of September 29-30 of the same year by the Reich Chancellor of Germany, Adolf Hitler, Prime Minister of Great Britain Neville Chamberlain, French Prime Minister Edouard Daladier and Italian Prime Minister Benito Mussolini. The agreement provided that Czechoslovakia would liberate and cede the Sudetenland to Germany within 10 days.
It is noteworthy that all this time the Soviet Union remained faithful to the Mutual Assistance Treaty with the Czechoslovak Republic. Moscow's representative in the League of Nations called for immediate assistance to Prague, but all proposals were blocked by England and France. The USSR was ready to send troops even if no one else wanted to support Czechoslovakia. Despite this, Poland replied that it would not allow Soviet troops to pass through its territory.
This completely freed Hitler's hands, he realized that he would be given all of Europe.
The agreement between Germany and the USSR was precisely a non-aggression pact - in contrast to the Munich Agreement, which, with the blessing of the "Western democracies", threw the sovereign state of Czechoslovakia at the mercy of Hitler and became the forerunner of World War II.
You say that the USSR began to participate in the war only when they were attacked by Hitler.
Do you know about "Strange War"???
In a different way, the "sitting war" of Great Britain and France. Thus, the nature of hostilities between the warring parties was emphasized - their almost complete absence, with the exception of hostilities at sea.
Britain assumed that Hitler would not go deeper into the West, but would turn his forces against the USSR. Poland had a plan that included going with Hitler to Moscow. But Hitler thought he could handle it himself. There were even attempts on the part of the Western powers to provoke Hitler's attack on the USSR.
By the way, after France capitulated in 1940, volunteer detachments and legions of volunteers against Bolshevism were formed in France, who participated in the attack on Moscow, the defense of Berlin and other battles.
Note that in 1942 at a conference, the USSR asked for the opening of a second front by Great Britain and the United States, which would greatly facilitate the position of the USSR in the defense and offensive of the Red Army. German troops would have to transfer some of their army to the Western Front. But the United Kingdom and the United States refused to do so. They opened a second front only in 1944, when the USSR launched a counteroffensive. The United States and Great Britain deliberately delayed the opening of the second front in order for the USSR to weaken its forces on the Soviet-German front as much as possible.
Edited by Tembolat .
Good,evening, dear Tembolat, what you wrote is partly wright but you forgot of course as a russian nationalist and propagandist you are, to talk about the Teheran s conference of January 1943 with Stalin, Roosevelt and Churchill where the leaders of Allied nations which were fighting at that time against german third reich decided to open a second front in western europe on July 1943 first in Sicilia and then on September of the same year in Italy so as to liberate the eastern front from german troops which could have been very useful to the nazi regim during the decisive battle of Kursk which occured on the same time in your country against Red Army.We should precise the real facts of the Second World War, It might be wise to specify the ambiguous attitude of the USSR during the Second World War. Of course the soviet soldiers were a determinant point for the victory but in reality the Soviets did not care about the fate of Europe, they only entered the war when Hitler attacked them. Before they were very good friends. Nazis and Soviets signed the German Soviet pact in August 23, 1939 followed by two other agreements on August 28 and September 28. Relations between the two dictatorships were then in very good shape until Hitler launched Operation Barbarossa to invade Russia. With this pact Stalin could take the half of Poland, the Baltic countries some other territories in Rumania and Moldavia and could attack Finland with the accord of Hitler. On the side of Hitler this shameful pact allowed him invading west Europe and let the United Kingdom alone in Front of the German army. So if the Soviets were a big element of the victory. Their intervention only came when the Nazis attacked them. It was first a betrayal between dictators. If Hitler had been a little smarter he should have avoided attacking the USSR and dealt with ending the conflict with Great Britain.Why didn't the USSR enter the war earlier?
The USSR made attempts to create an anti-Hitler coalition back in the spring and summer of 1939. Read about the Moscow negotiations in 1939, where there were three parties: Great Britain, France and the USSR. France was more cautious about starting military negotiations before a political agreement was reached. In addition, both London and Paris knew that Poland and Romania categorically objected to the passage of the Red Army through their territory. As a result, London postponed the solution of this issue for the time being, discussing in the meantime whether to interrupt negotiations with the USSR altogether.
Continue?
In March 1939, Germany annexed Klaipeda from Lithuania with the tacit consent of the major powers (France and Great Britain).
The Munich Agreement of 1938 (also called the Munich Agreement) is an agreement between Germany, Great Britain, France and the Kingdom of Italy, drawn up in Munich on September 29, 1938 and signed on the night of September 29-30 of the same year by the Reich Chancellor of Germany, Adolf Hitler, Prime Minister of Great Britain Neville Chamberlain, French Prime Minister Edouard Daladier and Italian Prime Minister Benito Mussolini. The agreement provided that Czechoslovakia would liberate and cede the Sudetenland to Germany within 10 days.
It is noteworthy that all this time the Soviet Union remained faithful to the Mutual Assistance Treaty with the Czechoslovak Republic. Moscow's representative in the League of Nations called for immediate assistance to Prague, but all proposals were blocked by England and France. The USSR was ready to send troops even if no one else wanted to support Czechoslovakia. Despite this, Poland replied that it would not allow Soviet troops to pass through its territory.
This completely freed Hitler's hands, he realized that he would be given all of Europe.
The agreement between Germany and the USSR was precisely a non-aggression pact - in contrast to the Munich Agreement, which, with the blessing of the "Western democracies", threw the sovereign state of Czechoslovakia at the mercy of Hitler and became the forerunner of World War II.
You say that the USSR began to participate in the war only when they were attacked by Hitler.
Do you know about "Strange War"???
In a different way, the "sitting war" of Great Britain and France. Thus, the nature of hostilities between the warring parties was emphasized - their almost complete absence, with the exception of hostilities at sea.
Britain assumed that Hitler would not go deeper into the West, but would turn his forces against the USSR. Poland had a plan that included going with Hitler to Moscow. But Hitler thought he could handle it himself. There were even attempts on the part of the Western powers to provoke Hitler's attack on the USSR.
By the way, after France capitulated in 1940, volunteer detachments and legions of volunteers against Bolshevism were formed in France, who participated in the attack on Moscow, the defense of Berlin and other battles.
Note that in 1942 at a conference, the USSR asked for the opening of a second front by Great Britain and the United States, which would greatly facilitate the position of the USSR in the defense and offensive of the Red Army. German troops would have to transfer some of their army to the Western Front. But the United Kingdom and the United States refused to do so. They opened a second front only in 1944, when the USSR launched a counteroffensive. The United States and Great Britain deliberately delayed the opening of the second front in order for the USSR to weaken its forces on the Soviet-German front as much as possible.
At last, dear Tembolat, I would like to thank you very much for writing about the LVF, the french legion of volunteers against Bolshevism created in august 1941 and whose members used to reach the suburbs of Moscow on december 1941.
A few years later on june 1944, the LVF used to join the 33rd Waffen SS Grenadier Division more famous known under the name of Charles the Great division, the last Waffen SS division created by Heinrich Himmler, the chief of the SS and right hand man of Adolf Hitler and only composed of French volunteers. His members as my own father was, used to fight Red Army in Poland and some of them used to be and you re true with the last 300 defenders of Hitler s bunker during the final battle of Berlin ( and the survivors used to create in 1972 the party of Mrs Le Pen in my country that your Sberbank, holds at 51% by Russian State, supports financially since 2015 but of course, Russians are always committing the same mistake again and again all along their history ! )
Thank you for getting personal by calling me a nationalist and propagandist. You don't know me, you just decided to spread demagoguery. Honestly, after that I do not want to continue communication with you. But I will not be lazy and still justify you.Good,evening, dear Tembolat, what you wrote is partly wright but you forgot of course as a russian nationalist and propagandist you are, to talk about the Teheran s conference of January 1943 with Stalin, Roosevelt and Churchill where the leaders of Allied nations which were fighting at that time against german third reich decided to open a second front in western europe on July 1943 first in Sicilia and then on September of the same year in Italy so as to liberate the eastern front from german troops which could have been very useful to the nazi regim during the decisive battle of Kursk which occured on the same time in your country against Red Army.We should precise the real facts of the Second World War, It might be wise to specify the ambiguous attitude of the USSR during the Second World War. Of course the soviet soldiers were a determinant point for the victory but in reality the Soviets did not care about the fate of Europe, they only entered the war when Hitler attacked them. Before they were very good friends. Nazis and Soviets signed the German Soviet pact in August 23, 1939 followed by two other agreements on August 28 and September 28. Relations between the two dictatorships were then in very good shape until Hitler launched Operation Barbarossa to invade Russia. With this pact Stalin could take the half of Poland, the Baltic countries some other territories in Rumania and Moldavia and could attack Finland with the accord of Hitler. On the side of Hitler this shameful pact allowed him invading west Europe and let the United Kingdom alone in Front of the German army. So if the Soviets were a big element of the victory. Their intervention only came when the Nazis attacked them. It was first a betrayal between dictators. If Hitler had been a little smarter he should have avoided attacking the USSR and dealt with ending the conflict with Great Britain.Why didn't the USSR enter the war earlier?
The USSR made attempts to create an anti-Hitler coalition back in the spring and summer of 1939. Read about the Moscow negotiations in 1939, where there were three parties: Great Britain, France and the USSR. France was more cautious about starting military negotiations before a political agreement was reached. In addition, both London and Paris knew that Poland and Romania categorically objected to the passage of the Red Army through their territory. As a result, London postponed the solution of this issue for the time being, discussing in the meantime whether to interrupt negotiations with the USSR altogether.
Continue?
In March 1939, Germany annexed Klaipeda from Lithuania with the tacit consent of the major powers (France and Great Britain).
The Munich Agreement of 1938 (also called the Munich Agreement) is an agreement between Germany, Great Britain, France and the Kingdom of Italy, drawn up in Munich on September 29, 1938 and signed on the night of September 29-30 of the same year by the Reich Chancellor of Germany, Adolf Hitler, Prime Minister of Great Britain Neville Chamberlain, French Prime Minister Edouard Daladier and Italian Prime Minister Benito Mussolini. The agreement provided that Czechoslovakia would liberate and cede the Sudetenland to Germany within 10 days.
It is noteworthy that all this time the Soviet Union remained faithful to the Mutual Assistance Treaty with the Czechoslovak Republic. Moscow's representative in the League of Nations called for immediate assistance to Prague, but all proposals were blocked by England and France. The USSR was ready to send troops even if no one else wanted to support Czechoslovakia. Despite this, Poland replied that it would not allow Soviet troops to pass through its territory.
This completely freed Hitler's hands, he realized that he would be given all of Europe.
The agreement between Germany and the USSR was precisely a non-aggression pact - in contrast to the Munich Agreement, which, with the blessing of the "Western democracies", threw the sovereign state of Czechoslovakia at the mercy of Hitler and became the forerunner of World War II.
You say that the USSR began to participate in the war only when they were attacked by Hitler.
Do you know about "Strange War"???
In a different way, the "sitting war" of Great Britain and France. Thus, the nature of hostilities between the warring parties was emphasized - their almost complete absence, with the exception of hostilities at sea.
Britain assumed that Hitler would not go deeper into the West, but would turn his forces against the USSR. Poland had a plan that included going with Hitler to Moscow. But Hitler thought he could handle it himself. There were even attempts on the part of the Western powers to provoke Hitler's attack on the USSR.
By the way, after France capitulated in 1940, volunteer detachments and legions of volunteers against Bolshevism were formed in France, who participated in the attack on Moscow, the defense of Berlin and other battles.
Note that in 1942 at a conference, the USSR asked for the opening of a second front by Great Britain and the United States, which would greatly facilitate the position of the USSR in the defense and offensive of the Red Army. German troops would have to transfer some of their army to the Western Front. But the United Kingdom and the United States refused to do so. They opened a second front only in 1944, when the USSR launched a counteroffensive. The United States and Great Britain deliberately delayed the opening of the second front in order for the USSR to weaken its forces on the Soviet-German front as much as possible.
You say that I am partially right, in which I am wrong, I gave you all the facts, arguments, events, they are in the public domain. Take and read.
Regarding the opening of a second front, I admit that in 1943 there was an operation in Sicily, where were the allies before? Secondly, in all sources, both in yours and in ours, the opening of the second front is the landing of the allies in Normandy.
You did not mention the MAIN FACTOR that influenced the decision of the Germans - THE BEGINNING OF THE OFFENSIVE OF THE BRYANSK AND WESTERN FRONTS ON JULY 12. It is foolish to continue an already unsuccessful offensive when an armada of armies of two fronts falls on you from the flank. Neither Prokhorovka nor Sicily had any influence on the decision to end Operation Citadel. (The Oryol-Kursk operation and the Citadel are different operations, one is ours, the other is Germans, so there is a difference 🙂 )
Once again, I would like to draw your attention to the fact that all resources for the Citadel operation were determined in advance and the landing in Sicily did not affect their composition in any way.
As for the telegram, yes, this telegram does exist, many believe that it did not exist, but in my opinion it did exist.
Tell me, if you were trying to delay the war in order to prepare, how would you treat your opponents? That's right, they would try to somehow not ignite the conflict in advance.
If you already raised the question for an ordinary piece of paper, then what do you say about this:
Almost all the industrial capacities of France, until its liberation, worked for the needs of Nazi Germany.
AMP.
During the period from 1940 to 1944, France supplied 4 thousand aircraft, 10 thousand aircraft engines for the needs of the Luftwaffe. German planes with French engines bombed Soviet cities. More than 52,000 trucks made in France made up a significant part of the Wehrmacht and Waffen-SS fleet.
In the Soviet Union, the miners of Donbass flooded the mines so that the Nazi invaders could not use the coal, and in France the workers could do the best they could to go on strike - no, not against the supply of weapons to the front, but for an increase in wages. That is, in principle, they were ready to work to build up the power of the German army, but for a slightly higher fee!
I also want to add about the operation "Sunrise" (be sure to read), where the allies (England and the United States) began secret negotiations with Germany.
Despite the fact that in 1943, at the conferences in Casablanca and Tehran, the Allies defined the unconditional and complete surrender of Germany and its satellites as the goal of the war, in the United States and Great Britain there were many influential supporters of the idea of negotiating with Germany (with or without Hitler). As the military successes of the USSR grew, many in business circles, in the Republican Party in the USA, and in the leadership of American trade unions, were inclined to this idea. They were concerned about the post-war reorganization of the world and, above all, the possible strengthening of the role of the USSR in it, and their pressure on President Roosevelt and his team was constantly increasing. So, in 1944, General J. Marshall sent a memorandum on military-strategic issues to the president, in which he proposed to reduce military supplies to the Soviet Union in order to slow down the rate of advance of Soviet troops to the west. There are a lot of interesting things there, if they start writing about it, it will take a very long time.
I want to bring a very interesting fact. You knew that it was thanks to Stalin that France became the victorious country.
On the eve of the landings in Normandy in June 1944, de Gaulle was told that a provisional occupation administration would be established in France, and the creation of civilian authorities would be postponed until the end of the war. This would be the complete end of de Gaulle as a politician. Of course, de Gaulle tirelessly maintained active contacts with both Roosevelt and Churchill, proving that only he could ensure due loyalty to the Western allies. But it was clear that the United States and Britain did not want France to play a prominent role in post-war Europe. There was only one ally country that was interested in France precisely as a counterbalance to the influence of the United States and England. That country was the USSR.
On December 10, 1944, the USSR and France signed an agreement on alliance and military assistance. With this act, the Soviet leadership officially elevated France to the same level of cooperation that the United States and Great Britain were at. Stalin wanted to invite de Gaulle to a conference in Yalta, and then to Potsdam, but his initiative met with active opposition from Western partners.
How Stalin made France a victorious country in World War II The role of France in the final defeat of the Third Reich is incomparably lower than the role of any of the three powers of the Great Troika - the USSR, the USA, England. Even at the time of the signing of the surrender of Germany, the French troops, continuously replenished with mobilizations, amounted to no more than 10% of the total number of troops of the Western Allies in Europe. The role of France in the war is comparable to that of Italy. By the end of World War II, Italy also had an official anti-fascist government with its own troops, and resistance guerrilla groups operated in the rear of the German and Italian-fascist armies. However, this did not become a reason for Italy to be excluded from the list of losers of the war. But France, despite its massive collaborationism (more French volunteers fought in the Nazi formations than in the resistance movement), was among the four powers that accepted the surrender of the Third Reich and became a permanent member of the UN Security Council. Considerable merit in this belongs to the leadership of the USSR and personally to Stalin. English puppet de Gaulle In June 1940, in the days of the collapse of the French army, when England could not provide any assistance to its ally, the French government capitulated to Hitler. Only one member of the government opposed the surrender - the Deputy Minister of War, General Charles de Gaulle. Having hastily left France on a British military plane, on June 18, 1940, he set out from London with an appeal to all the French to continue the fight against Germany. After the government of Marshal Petain signed an armistice with Hitler on June 22, 1940, de Gaulle's activities began to be regarded in France as treason. The court sentenced de Gaulle to death in absentia. Then the majority of the French looked at Petain as a double hero. In the First World War, he defended Verdun from the Germans. In World War II, he timely saved his country from complete devastation - inevitable if France, incited by England, continued to fight. Churchill also had a low opinion of de Gaulle. He needed his name only to create the impression that not all French support collaborators. Using the name of de Gaulle and the flag of "Fighting France", the British in 1940-1941. destroyed or interned most of the French Navy, established control over French Central Africa, Senegal, Syria and Lebanon. In May 1942, the British launched an operation to capture Madagascar. The Lemur Island Campaign was perhaps the most ridiculous of World War II. Madagascar was many thousands of kilometers from any fronts. Using as a pretext the fact that the Japanese fleet appeared in the Indian Ocean, Churchill decided "to prevent the Japanese from establishing a naval base in Madagascar." This time even de Gaulle could not stand it and protested against the capture of the French colony by England. For six months, the Malagasy warriors, under the command of French officers, repulsed the attacks of Indian soldiers, led by British officers. In November 1942, an armistice was signed, according to which control of Madagascar passed to the British administration. Out of work in North Africa At the same time, in November 1942, the Anglo-American troops launched a landing operation in the French colonies of North Africa: Morocco, Algeria and Tunisia. The goal was to go to the rear of Rommel's army in Libya and force her to capitulate. Neither the British nor the Americans considered de Gaulle as a potential French leader in the newly occupied French territories. The Americans held negotiations in advance with the officials of the Petain government - Darlan and Giraud. When, in response to the Allied landings in North Africa, Hitler ordered the occupation of the remainder of France, Darlan and Giraud declared that Petain was no longer competent as head of state and ordered French troops in North Africa to stop resisting the Americans and the British. In gratitude for this, Darlan was appointed head of the entire French administration in North Africa, and Giraud was appointed commander-in-chief of the French military forces in it. Again, de Gaulle was out of work, he was not even remembered. Not a "totalitarian dictatorship", but a historical continuation of Russia On the eve of the landings in Normandy in June 1944, de Gaulle was told that a temporary occupation administration would be created in France, and the creation of civilian authorities would be postponed until the end of the war. This would be the complete end of de Gaulle as a politician. Of course, de Gaulle tirelessly maintained active contacts with both Roosevelt and Churchill, proving that only he could ensure due loyalty to the Western allies. But it was clear that the United States and Britain did not want France to play a prominent role in post-war Europe. There was only one ally country that was interested in France precisely as a counterbalance to the influence of the United States and England. That country was the USSR. Stalin had been eyeing de Gaulle for a long time. In September 1941, Moscow established diplomatic relations with the "Fighting France" (diplomatic relations with the Vichy government were broken in July 1941). In November 1942, the foundation was laid for the creation of the Normandy volunteer aviation unit on the Eastern Front. In December 1944, de Gaulle, already as head of the Provisional Government of France, visited Moscow. The meeting had huge results for France And. Both politicians agreed that it was necessary by all means to exclude the post-war influence of the United States in France, to ensure France's full independence. The negotiations were helped by the fact that de Gaulle viewed the USSR not as a "totalitarian dictatorship", but, above all, as the historical successor of Russia - an ally of France in the First World War. On December 10, 1944, the USSR and France signed an agreement on alliance and military assistance. With this act, the Soviet leadership officially elevated France to the same level of cooperation that the United States and Great Britain were at. Stalin wanted to invite de Gaulle to a conference in Yalta, and then to Potsdam, but his initiative met with active opposition from Western partners. Nevertheless, the significance of de Gaulle's visit to Moscow was enormous; the status of post-war France was raised to the level of a great power. In return, Stalin received from de Gaulle an assurance of full support on the Polish question (the coming to power of the Communists and the establishment of borders favorable to the USSR). Stalin also hoped that in post-war France, the communists would have a serious influence on foreign policy, important for the USSR. He gave directives to the leaders of the French Communists (Thorez, Duclos) to support de Gaulle in every possible way, especially with regard to defending French sovereignty from US encroachments, and to forget the "struggle for socialism" for a long time.
At Stalin's request, on May 8, 1945, Marshal of the Soviet Union Georgy Konstantinovich Zhukov led de Latre into a conference room in the building of the former military engineering school in Karlshorst (a suburb of Berlin).
When de Latre demanded that the French flag be attached to the British, American and Soviet flags in the surrender hall, he heard from a British officer: "Why not the Chinese flag?"
After some hesitation, Zhukov ordered a tricolor flag to be sewn from some random rags. The chief of staff of the German army, Field Marshal Keitel, exclaimed when he saw the French flag between the American and British: “Oh, also the French! This was all that was missing! »
A new opportunity to protest was given to de Latre during the night banquet, when Zhukov, raising toasts, forgot about the French. He expressed displeasure out loud. The good-natured Zhukov, in joy, raised a toast to the glory of the French army. Thus, France became the fourth winner of Germany and took the place of a permanent member in the UN Security Council.
And about your last question about Mrs. Le Pen's game. Tell me, if you are the president of your country, would you like to have friendly relations with other countries? Le Pen is one of those politicians who are trying to build relations with Russia, why should Russia maintain relations with those who are opposed to it?
As for funding, I don’t know, I personally didn’t hold a candle, especially since there is no clear evidence that it is financed.
Regarding propaganda, I don't want to say anything bad about the propaganda of the West, I am a historian, not a politician. And look at everything from all sides, then draw conlusions
That’s simpler to present the consequences of the German Soviet pact rather than pages of partisan explanations:
After the signature, Germany invade Poland but let the half of the country for Stalin and after attacks west Europe without problems. Great Britain stayed alone against Germany.
Russia annexed the rest of Poland and deported 400 000 poles and assassinated 25 000 polishes officers, annexed Baltic countries and also deported 60 000 persons he attacked Also Finland to obtain some territories he also obliged Romania to give some of its regions and deports at new 15 000 persons. USSR has after that a direct border from Baltic to the Black see. The USSR was thus able to expand easily by almost 400,000 km². This was the jackpot for Stalin who also delivered to Hitler the anti-fascist opponents and raw materials.
It’s hard to believe that was only a non-aggression pact, but a real agreement between two dictators with mutual benefits.
Я писал об этом выше , перечитайте.
Хочу добавить,что в1939 году советские войска вошли на территорию Польши «после того, как польское правительство утратило контроль за своими вооружёнными силами и за тем, что происходит на территории» страны.
Советские войска вступили на территорию Польши 17 сентября 1939 года. В тот момент польского правительства, контроля польских властей на территории Польши уже не было. Уже были эмигрантские правительства. СССР вступил на территорию Польши с одной целью: обеспечить безопасность интересов украинского, белорусского, русского и еврейского народов, которые там проживали. Нельзя не признать того факта – и кадры кинохроники это подтверждают, — что большинство населения приветствовали присоединение этих государств или территорий к Советскому Союзу. Бедные люди получили землю, а многие представители среднего класса хуже жить не стали. Нельзя забывать и о том, что в то время во всех трех прибалтийских странах было очень сильное и массовое левое движение.
По поводу Финляндии .
Ещё до начала Второй мировой войны обмен развединформацией о СССР и вооружённых силах СССР между Финляндией и Третьим рейхом имел регулярный характер.
20 июля 1939 года правительство Финляндии объявило, что отказывается от всякого сотрудничества с СССР в случае агрессии со стороны Германии против Финляндии и будет рассматривать любую помощь СССР как агрессию[
Через финско-советскую границу отправляли разведчиков на СССР. Тем более , на тот момент вторым крупным городом в СССР был Ленинград , который имел важное стратегическое значение и находившийся рядом с Финляндией. СССР ни при каких обстоятельствах нельзя было терять этот город
Позже Финляндия вообще выступила против СССР на стороне Гитлера.
Остальное я вам всё выше написал.
И ещё , если СССР якобы "напал "на Польшу, то почему войну объявили Гитлеру?
I only show you what did Hitler and Stalin after this pact. Apparently, these two dictators had the hands free to do what they wanted with the territories of which they have shared control. You search irrelevant details to hide the big facts.Эти "несуществующие детали" являются главными историческими фактами, которые вы не хотите принимать, чтобы покрыть грязью. Сталин не был идеальным, как и любой другой правитель, тот же Наполеон преследовал свои цели по захвату России. Мы начали совсем с другого, а вы ищете плохие стороны государства. Вы спросили почему СССР не вступил в войну раньше, я вам об этом подробно расписал и даже рассказал, как бездействовали другие государства. Но вы не хотите меня слушать. Просто упёрлись в своё и хотите донести, что СССР -плохой. Я вам ещё раз повторю, СССР - не был идеальным, как и любое другое государство. Прочтите историю нейтральных государств, не Российскую и не Французскую, и уж тем более не США ,посмотрите на историю со стороны другого государства. Может вы найдете истину.
Good evening to everyone here whoever you are and wherever you re from ! First, I just want to answer to the simple question that Maria Shrivani, the 15 years teenage girl who created this forum on Penpal and whose parents moved from Russia to Denmark asked us : what do you think of Russia ? Well, as a salesman working directly for Renault ( or Reno for Russians ) car maker, I consider Russia and Russian people as former clients with whom my society used to work with for 30 years and as clients, I must respect them even if personnally I m fighting the political ideology and actions of Russian government and Russia United Party .
Привет русские друзья,
I, for once, haven't changed my mind about this beautiful country and the wonderful people I met there when I had the privilege to spend 3 too short months in between Moscow and St Petersburg in 2015 ! I'm still passionate about your History, I still admire your resilience while facing harsh times, and I still take great pride using some good old Smirnov vodka in my cocktails haha !
Do not get fooled by the shameful amount of disrespect or hate some ignorant Идиоты spread online in the wake of the current world events, for you'd be surprised there's much more quiet, literate and curious people even here in the Western world, which I know quite well for I'm myself French, than you'd think of that keep up a positive opinion towards you despite the propaganda we have to face on a daily basis here as well. Just like you I suppose.
Whatever some will say, keep true to yourselves, embrace this русская душа many of us facing identity crisis in the West envy you for, and honour the memory of your fallen soldiers. Do not feel ashamed about events you have no control over, nor the need to amend yourself for your presidents decisions. Wether you support him or not, you've got the right to have your personal reasons for that, and you deserve respect. On a personal note, I believe there's not a single high end politician anywhere in the world that didn't had some blood spilled over them hands while being in charge anyway, so there's that eh 😉.
Anyhow, God bless Russia and the Russian people ! Whatever time it takes for things to resolve, I am convinced victory will be yours in the end and that we will have the opportunity to rebuild our diplomatic ties at some point. And by then, I'll be the first in line to visit the many parts of the Motherland I still got to discover !
Edited by A_Max_of_drinks .
Привет русские друзья,As one of Russians, love your point of view!I, for once, haven't changed my mind about this beautiful country and the wonderful people I met there when I had the privilege to spend 3 too short months in between Moscow and St Petersburg in 2015 ! I'm still passionate about your History, I still admire your resilience while facing harsh times, and I still take great pride using some good old Smirnov vodka in my cocktails haha !
Do not get fooled by the shameful amount of disrespect or hate some ignorant Идиоты spread online in the wake of the current world events, for you'd be surprised there's much more quiet, literate and curious people even here in the Western world, which I know quite well for I'm myself French, than you'd think of that keep up a positive opinion towards you despite the propaganda we have to face on a daily basis here as well. Just like you I suppose.
Whatever some will say, keep true to yourselves, embrace this русская душа many of us facing identity crisis in the West envy you for, and honour the memory of your fallen soldiers. Do not feel ashamed about events you have no control over, nor the need to amend yourself for your presidents decisions. Wether you support him or not, you've got the right to have your personal reasons for that, and you deserve respect. On a personal note, I believe there's not a single high end politician anywhere in the world that didn't had some blood spilled over them hands while being in charge anyway, so there's that eh 😉.
Anyhow, God bless Russia and the Russian people ! Whatever time it takes for things to resolve, I am convinced victory will be yours in the end and that we will have the opportunity to rebuild our diplomatic ties at some point. And by then, I'll be the first in line to visit the many parts of the Motherland I still got to discover !
How Stalin made France a victorious country in World War II The role of France in the final defeat of the Third Reich is incomparably lower than the role of any of the three powers of the Great Troika - the USSR, the USA, England. Even at the time of the signing of the surrender of Germany, the French troops, continuously replenished with mobilizations, amounted to no more than 10% of the total number of troops of the Western Allies in Europe. The role of France in the war is comparable to that of Italy. By the end of World War II, Italy also had an official anti-fascist government with its own troops, and resistance guerrilla groups operated in the rear of the German and Italian-fascist armies. However, this did not become a reason for Italy to be excluded from the list of losers of the war. But France, despite its massive collaborationism (more French volunteers fought in the Nazi formations than in the resistance movement), was among the four powers that accepted the surrender of the Third Reich and became a permanent member of the UN Security Council. Considerable merit in this belongs to the leadership of the USSR and personally to Stalin. English puppet de Gaulle In June 1940, in the days of the collapse of the French army, when England could not provide any assistance to its ally, the French government capitulated to Hitler. Only one member of the government opposed the surrender - the Deputy Minister of War, General Charles de Gaulle. Having hastily left France on a British military plane, on June 18, 1940, he set out from London with an appeal to all the French to continue the fight against Germany. After the government of Marshal Petain signed an armistice with Hitler on June 22, 1940, de Gaulle's activities began to be regarded in France as treason. The court sentenced de Gaulle to death in absentia. Then the majority of the French looked at Petain as a double hero. In the First World War, he defended Verdun from the Germans. In World War II, he timely saved his country from complete devastation - inevitable if France, incited by England, continued to fight. Churchill also had a low opinion of de Gaulle. He needed his name only to create the impression that not all French support collaborators. Using the name of de Gaulle and the flag of "Fighting France", the British in 1940-1941. destroyed or interned most of the French Navy, established control over French Central Africa, Senegal, Syria and Lebanon. In May 1942, the British launched an operation to capture Madagascar. The Lemur Island Campaign was perhaps the most ridiculous of World War II. Madagascar was many thousands of kilometers from any fronts. Using as a pretext the fact that the Japanese fleet appeared in the Indian Ocean, Churchill decided "to prevent the Japanese from establishing a naval base in Madagascar." This time even de Gaulle could not stand it and protested against the capture of the French colony by England. For six months, the Malagasy warriors, under the command of French officers, repulsed the attacks of Indian soldiers, led by British officers. In November 1942, an armistice was signed, according to which control of Madagascar passed to the British administration. Out of work in North Africa At the same time, in November 1942, the Anglo-American troops launched a landing operation in the French colonies of North Africa: Morocco, Algeria and Tunisia. The goal was to go to the rear of Rommel's army in Libya and force her to capitulate. Neither the British nor the Americans considered de Gaulle as a potential French leader in the newly occupied French territories. The Americans held negotiations in advance with the officials of the Petain government - Darlan and Giraud. When, in response to the Allied landings in North Africa, Hitler ordered the occupation of the remainder of France, Darlan and Giraud declared that Petain was no longer competent as head of state and ordered French troops in North Africa to stop resisting the Americans and the British. In gratitude for this, Darlan was appointed head of the entire French administration in North Africa, and Giraud was appointed commander-in-chief of the French military forces in it. Again, de Gaulle was out of work, he was not even remembered. Not a "totalitarian dictatorship", but a historical continuation of Russia On the eve of the landings in Normandy in June 1944, de Gaulle was told that a temporary occupation administration would be created in France, and the creation of civilian authorities would be postponed until the end of the war. This would be the complete end of de Gaulle as a politician. Of course, de Gaulle tirelessly maintained active contacts with both Roosevelt and Churchill, proving that only he could ensure due loyalty to the Western allies. But it was clear that the United States and Britain did not want France to play a prominent role in post-war Europe. There was only one ally country that was interested in France precisely as a counterbalance to the influence of the United States and England. That country was the USSR. Stalin had been eyeing de Gaulle for a long time. In September 1941, Moscow established diplomatic relations with the "Fighting France" (diplomatic relations with the Vichy government were broken in July 1941). In November 1942, the foundation was laid for the creation of the Normandy volunteer aviation unit on the Eastern Front. In December 1944, de Gaulle, already as head of the Provisional Government of France, visited Moscow. The meeting had huge results for France And. Both politicians agreed that it was necessary by all means to exclude the post-war influence of the United States in France, to ensure France's full independence. The negotiations were helped by the fact that de Gaulle viewed the USSR not as a "totalitarian dictatorship", but, above all, as the historical successor of Russia - an ally of France in the First World War. On December 10, 1944, the USSR and France signed an agreement on alliance and military assistance. With this act, the Soviet leadership officially elevated France to the same level of cooperation that the United States and Great Britain were at. Stalin wanted to invite de Gaulle to a conference in Yalta, and then to Potsdam, but his initiative met with active opposition from Western partners. Nevertheless, the significance of de Gaulle's visit to Moscow was enormous; the status of post-war France was raised to the level of a great power. In return, Stalin received from de Gaulle an assurance of full support on the Polish question (the coming to power of the Communists and the establishment of borders favorable to the USSR). Stalin also hoped that in post-war France, the communists would have a serious influence on foreign policy, important for the USSR. He gave directives to the leaders of the French Communists (Thorez, Duclos) to support de Gaulle in every possible way, especially with regard to defending French sovereignty from US encroachments, and to forget the "struggle for socialism" for a long time.Good evening dear Tembolat ! How are you ? So, you are 24 and you tell us that you are already an historian ! Well, I got the feeling that you are a very ambitious young man but I m sorry to tell you that what you wrote here is absolutely off topic with the subject of this forum and I also got a small thought for this poor Maria Shrivani who certainly did not imagine that the forum she created just for knowing what Penpal community thought about her native country Russia, would be used by a ruscist ( russian fascist for Ukrainians people ) so as to spread the history vision and revisionists theories of Russian government about WW2.
At Stalin's request, on May 8, 1945, Marshal of the Soviet Union Georgy Konstantinovich Zhukov led de Latre into a conference room in the building of the former military engineering school in Karlshorst (a suburb of Berlin).
When de Latre demanded that the French flag be attached to the British, American and Soviet flags in the surrender hall, he heard from a British officer: "Why not the Chinese flag?"
After some hesitation, Zhukov ordered a tricolor flag to be sewn from some random rags. The chief of staff of the German army, Field Marshal Keitel, exclaimed when he saw the French flag between the American and British: “Oh, also the French! This was all that was missing! »A new opportunity to protest was given to de Latre during the night banquet, when Zhukov, raising toasts, forgot about the French. He expressed displeasure out loud. The good-natured Zhukov, in joy, raised a toast to the glory of the French army. Thus, France became the fourth winner of Germany and took the place of a permanent member in the UN Security Council.
And about your last question about Mrs. Le Pen's game. Tell me, if you are the president of your country, would you like to have friendly relations with other countries? Le Pen is one of those politicians who are trying to build relations with Russia, why should Russia maintain relations with those who are opposed to it?
As for funding, I don’t know, I personally didn’t hold a candle, especially since there is no clear evidence that it is financed.Regarding propaganda, I don't want to say anything bad about the propaganda of the West, I am a historian, not a politician. And look at everything from all sides, then draw conlusions
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