Abortion

yo creo que las mujeres deberian poder elegir ser madres o no, tambien vamos al punto de niñas siendo madres producto de un abuso sexual ahi esta el dilema que es bueno que es malo, no puedes decirle a una niña abusada no abortes por que eres una asesina cuando a ella la ultrajaron vamos desde aquel punto en que momento es llevado a la razón , del aborto en mi punto de vista deberia ser legal y asi no hay clinicas clandestinas y mujeres buscando lugares inseguros, les hablo del contexto de latinoamerica, donde hay niñas siendo madres entonces el aborto deerias ser legal en todo el mundo ya que tambien es una problematica de salud

I dont want to write that people fight over that so i just wanted to say that i think also it is important what is in the head of the mum. And tbh i think BOTH THE CASES are also very scary and is important also to listen to the feelings of the mom. So if i would choose between abortion and giving birth then i think both are really scary and it is super heavy as topic to talk about. So if people think in way about it i only hope that they talk with respect and really calm with the mum because it is super emotional and scary too and people should respect helping her with it. So maybe the first is NOT to say to her super strong your opinion but that you talk calmly and ask her what she thinks first and not attack about what she says.

And what @ConsBelt wrote i think that is maybe the worst and really terrible situation because if you are abused and you are already in nightmare. But when you choose about the abortion or the birth you have only scary things that you choose from. ANDDD after the choice if you have the baby you always remember what happened but if you have abortion you always regret that you dont get the baby. So it is maybe the most terrible situation but the ONLY who are not a fault are the mom and the baby because they could not do anything about it.

Sorryy if what i wrote upsets anybody because i know this is a topic and people have super strong opinions and that is not what i mean with this. Thank you very much!! 🙏🙏✨

Sperm is not a person, sperm carries only half of genetic material. When it successfully combines with egg cell, which carries the other half, then the new DNA is formed and life begins. That's a simple biology which you seem to not understand at all. Your opinion about when the life starts, just like mine, is irrelevant because it's not subjective - like I've already explained, the science clearly says when life begins. If you don't trust me, do a research by yourself. Other parts of your comment are clear manipulation and lies - we have all seen in your comments on other forums which are full of toxicity and hate toward all religions. You probably hate yourself subconsciously as well. It's very sad to see that you grew old and still unable to get rid of hate. Almost all your posts are focused on negativity and your only goals are to win an argument (which you haven't succeeded in any forum if I remember well) and to aggressively promote your opinions. This time you decided to change your tone and tactic but it still doesn't work. But, nice try ☺.

How do you know that I don't help people? People in wombs are already alive (seriously, check what science says). If you refer to people who are already born, how do you know that I don't help them? Where exactly did I say that I judge women who decide to kill their babies? I said that I judge their behaviour, not them. What about women who are not born yet? The aren't important for you? Also, tell me please what when woman kill her unborn child? You would leave her suffering, just like real a pro-death person.

Your logic about stop eating meat and plants and that God is cruel is hilarious. Plants and animals have to be respected and protected, but they aren't people and of course we will eat them. Here you pretend that you are questioning God's existence just to present yourself objective, while you have already aggressively attacked almost every person who believes in God on other forums. So, nice try again ☺. Abortion is not only a religious question, you biased people can't understand that at all for some reason.

I really don't know why you are full of toxicity and hate. I understand that it makes you miserable and that you hate life and everything connected with it, but it's not healthy for you. Maybe, just maybe, you should work on yourself.

Unborns aren't people=Jews aren't people=blacks aren't people.... there is no difference between these claims. All people deserve a chance to live and to build their life. "The mind and sentient person and not the life" you say. That means you want to kill all retards and people in comma. That's exaclty what the biggest dictators and warlords did - they would get rid of "unuseful" people. Who are you to decide who should live or die?

"Who are you to decide who should live or die?"

I could ask the same question? return to sender? why don't you think on that one? take time time to reflect? back at ya buddy? like genuinely this made me laugh because of how stupid it sounded, because @anil could ask you the same fucking question, hell I could ask you the same question. that was just a waist of time and energy putting that in there

I dont want to write that people fight over that so i just wanted to say that i think also it is important what is in the head of the mum. And tbh i think BOTH THE CASES are also very scary and is important also to listen to the feelings of the mom. So if i would choose between abortion and giving birth then i think both are really scary and it is super heavy as topic to talk about. So if people think in way about it i only hope that they talk with respect and really calm with the mum because it is super emotional and scary too and people should respect helping her with it. So maybe the first is NOT to say to her super strong your opinion but that you talk calmly and ask her what she thinks first and not attack about what she says.

And what @ConsBelt wrote i think that is maybe the worst and really terrible situation because if you are abused and you are already in nightmare. But when you choose about the abortion or the birth you have only scary things that you choose from. ANDDD after the choice if you have the baby you always remember what happened but if you have abortion you always regret that you dont get the baby. So it is maybe the most terrible situation but the ONLY who are not a fault are the mom and the baby because they could not do anything about it.

Sorryy if what i wrote upsets anybody because i know this is a topic and people have super strong opinions and that is not what i mean with this. Thank you very much!! 🙏🙏✨

The vast majority of women who decide to carry their baby to term despite difficult circumstances want to keep it after the birth. Even if they had previously intended to give it up for adoption.

Incidentally, I believe that for every child that someone here does not want, I could find a loving family willing to take them in.

Abortion is not a solution. Abortion can have serious physical and emotional consequences that last a lifetime.

We must provide support before and after the birth when women are facing a difficult pregnancy, and resolve the problems surrounding it – not kill the child.

You told that you wanted to support Jing whatever she decides and that you were ready to cover the bill. That means that you were ready to pay for an assasination of your own child. That's disgusting. I am glad that Jing refused to kill your baby. I'm sure that now both of you are happy and that you enjoy spending time with your child. I don't know does this mean anything to you or to others from this forum, but I will pray for your child before sleeping (it's already 9 pm here), for you, Jing and all others who participated in this forum. And for myself as well ☺️

Thank you 🙂 Prayer is very important and powerful. ✨I do the same. God bless

@Based_Aura and who are you to lecture me? It seems I hit you in the nerve, right? I gave you scientific facts when life begins and I've just said what you said in your previous comment- you were ready to pay a murder of your own child - you said it in your post (not because I said so, but because science clearly says that life begins at the moment of conception). Where exactly have I said that you and Jing weren't consensual? You can't imprison her of course, but you can refuse to pay for the murder and both of you should know that sex can result in babies, you are both adults. Please learn to read with understanding if it's not too hard task for you. Where did I say that women are slaves and incubators? Read my previous posts (I think they start at the page 8). It's funny how you are still unable to understand that abortion is not only a religious question. Have I ever in my posts included religion or I stick to science? It seems to me that you pro-death people bring the religion constantly into abortion debate because you are unable to see the things from scientific perspective. And you still haven't answered to my question: who are you to decide who should live? How babies get into the women - delivered by stork or by sex? (I'm not asking for details here of course). Just not to forget: baby isn't part of woman's body.

Rude words and insults save for other "based" people.

@Rav3ns_Ghost23 who am I to decide who should live and who should die? It's not up to me to decide. That's why I don't have right to kill anybody. Who are you to decide who should live and who should die?

@MariaRosary it's interesting how people always focus on critical aspects and "forget" to mention postive aspects. But, that's their embarassment not ours. We gave them scientific explanations, gave them prolife links, but no, they continue recycling their lame excuses over and over. I am not sure anymore are they really unable to understand basic principles of science or are they so egocentric and biased so they can't even objectively think and see the topic from different perspectives before forming their atitude. Anyway, we will continue praying for them and for us.

@Yue_ said this part correctly: abortion can't make you to forget what happened and you would be devastated when you realise what have you done.

How can baby be responsible for his/her parents' irresponsibility?

@Korisnik give the record player a kick, your needle is stuck in the groove.

You gave no facts, none. You give Karen hyperbole. Refuse to pay? Ok. "Sorry babe, but you're on your own." Yeah. What a manly thing to do.

Anyways, it's all conjecture now because thats not the route we went.

Once your capable of having a civil discussion we can talk. But you aren't capable of that.

The fact that a human life is beginning does not in any way mean that the mind is already present. As I have already told you, life began a very long time ago and has simply evolved since then, eventually reaching—with human beings—a level of intelligence capable of asking such questions.
From a purely scientific standpoint, any semblance of sentience does not emerge until around the twentieth week. French law limits access to abortion to the end of the fourteenth week of pregnancy. It seems to me that this allows the mother sufficient time to decide whether or not she wishes to continue the pregnancy. Would a woman who has an abortion be acting irresponsibly? And is it truly reasonable to give birth to a child whose life will be a living hell for various reasons?

@Korisnik give the record player a kick, your needle is stuck in the groove.

You gave no facts, none. You give Karen hyperbole. Refuse to pay? Ok. "Sorry babe, but you're on your own." Yeah. What a manly thing to do.

Anyways, it's all conjecture now because thats not the route we went.

Once your capable of having a civil discussion we can talk. But you aren't capable of that.

Civil discussion excludes rude words and insults, those are the things which are present in most of your posts on every forum where you have been posting. I gave all scientific facts (starting from page 8 on this forum), check it by yourself if you don't believe me. It's not my problem that you are unable to accept constructive critic. Grow up. It's nice that you are ready to support Jing in general, but it's not nice if that "support" includes murder. If you don't want to talk to me never again, it's OK and I don't care. But please think about abortion from non-biased perspective. Man, you have 3 children, can you imagine to lose any of them? Of course no. Based on your posts on other forums and private messages which we exchanged, you are a nice person, definetly not an idiot, a father of 3, and an army veteran who was (in)directly surrounded by death in his workplace. That's why I can't understand how you can be pro-death.

@anil you are recycling lame theories again: is it trully reasonable to kill the child if you think that it will be abused? How do you know that child will be abused? How do you know that child can't get rid of its traumas? What's worse, to kill the child immediately or to give the child the chance? Check examples from Bosnia and Croatia: countless women and children raped by Chetniks in front of their families and they still decided to give a birth to their babies despite living in devastated places (for eample, check the photos of Vukovar after the war), with non-existing economy and widespread poverty due to war. Some young males were even forced by Chetniks to rape their own mothers. According to pro-death ideologies, all of those children have no future. But the truth is that most of those children (now already in their 30s) are grateful to their mothers for giving them birth, they were speaking about that in public.

You can also check Cristiano Ronaldo's example. According to pro-death people his life would be miserable. If the presence of the mind and sentience are decisive points to decide is somebody a person or no, then we should kill all retards, senile people and people in comma - that's Ubermensch ideology which was used by Hitler. Maybe you think Hitler was right?

You mentioned French laws about abortion which permits abortion until the fourteenth week...why do you think that French laws are the ultimate moral truths? For example, France also had law which permitted colonisation (and still have colonies, so it's still active but not at the same rate), nuclear testings in Polynesia which make the islanders prone to cancers, enslaving Africans, death penalties by guillotine,... Some countries have total ban on abortion, why you didn't mention their laws?

So it all comes down to this question which most pro-death people refuse to answer: who are you to decide who should live and who should die?

P.S. Now I have to go offline, I have to beat up my enslaved child incubator and I have to continue neglecting my children. Most of time I keep them locked in basement in our Balkan cave, from time to time I unlock the door so I can abuse them

You are surely a good person. I simply regret that you reason based on hypocritical religious dogmas. What is incorrect about what I’m saying? If the fetus isn't sufficiently developed, there aren't enough nerve cells or neuronal connections for the organism to feel the slightest emotion—terror, despair, or hatred. In that case, terminating it isn't murder; there isn't even a mind worthy of the name. I never said it wasn't alive; I simply say it has no more consciousness than an earthworm. Of course, I acknowledge that at a certain stage of development, destroying it might begin to resemble murder.
Fortunately, I have never had to decide who lives or dies. It must be truly harrowing for a woman to carry, give birth to, and even raise a child conceived through rape. Preventing that strikes me as a deeply humane act—just like preventing the birth of a severely deformed child, or an excessive number of children who are malnourished, uneducated, and unloved.
You know, you remind me of a very famous saint in France: Bernadette Soubirous. In the late 19th century, her parents were destitute yet still had nine children; only four reached adulthood, and only one lived to old age. Despite this, people back then thanked God for the blessings He had bestowed upon them and weren't shocked by the cruelty of that life—so much so that Bernadette dedicated her life to the Lord. There was no need for abortion; malnutrition and disease took care of that. Yet, it seems to me that some form of birth control could have prevented many tragedies. The small diagram shown above my post is incorrect; it is not an adult person who suddenly appears at fertilization.

I have already explained what is incorrect in your claims, read my previous answers. My point of view is based on religion and on science. Do you know why I am a Catholic? Because I find it the most logical and because of my personal experience. Some of my family members hate Catholic Church and one of my parents is an atheist, so I think that I am more objective than 99% of people when it comes about religion. But, let's stick to the topic. Despite being Catholic, have I ever used any religious reason here? No, I used scientific reasons because I am aware that not all people are Catholics and abortion is not only religious question. On the other hand science is universal and it's not hard to check the facts. You are probably smarter than all of us who discuss here, you speak English on an excellent level so you are more than capable to research it on your own.

Along with science, I also used the moral principle which I strongly believe that it should be universal - the principle that killing the most vulnerable persons is a horror. At least we agree that nobody wants to see people suffering. That's why we have to help any woman before, during and after she give birth. The thing that you advocate for murder is problematic. Murder isn't helping. And yes, it's a murder, science clearly says that life begins at the moment of conception. If we start to use mind as a decisive factor, then we should kill all retards. That's eugenic. Where is the line then? When we kill all people with IQ under a certain level, after that the bar will be raised and gradually everybody will be scheduled for being murdered except true geniuses. And there is still a question which everybody seems to avoid: who are we to decide who should live and who should die? Are all people equal? If we are all equal then we should give everybody a chance regardless of the race, ethnicity, age, intelligence level and other things. If we want to be trully open-minded, to accept the differences and to end discrimination, then we should start treating all people equally no matter are they 1 second old and in the womb or are they 100 years old. Here is a film which lasts only half an hour and it explains quite well why abortion is always unnacteptable (the author belongs to different branch of Christianity than me so we disagree on some things but overall he sum the abortion problem well): https://youtu.be/7y2KsU_dhwI?si=ieuOGmmWeLjn8e0G

What is incorrect about what I’m saying? If the fetus isn't sufficiently developed, there aren't enough nerve cells or neuronal connections for the organism to feel the slightest emotion—terror, despair, or hatred. In that case, terminating it isn't murder; there isn't even a mind worthy of the name. I never said it wasn't alive; I simply say it has no more consciousness than an earthworm. Of course, I acknowledge that at a certain stage of development, destroying it might begin to resemble murder.

Why is terminating a human life (after birth) a crime then? Think about it in general.

Immagine an adult human being is out of conscience, in coma, narcosis, faint, with neurological defficiency - is anybody allowed to kill this human being then?

The lack of consciousness or emotions cannot justify the murder on a human being after birth. So the lack of suspected consciousness or emotions cannot justify to kill an unborn human being either.

Elderly people with demencia are kind of mentally absent. They have serious neurological deficiencies. But this does not justify a murder.

At which stage of development you set the border? When do you think it is not okay anymore to kill this human being? And why? Just for the number of cells?

During my studies I learnt stunning things about the development of embryos and I suppose you would be surprised how much they already take notice e. g. their reactions to music etc.

Have you heard about the documentary "The Silent Scream" with former abortionist doctor Nathanson? He stopped aborting unborn children after he watched what he had done. - indeed, the unborn child was crying, it had immense fear - just outside the body, it was not possible to "hear" it.

In my opinion, we are never allowed to end a human life - regardless the stage of development. In fact, this tiny little human being is absolutely unique. All the genetic data is there from the very first moment: colour of eyes, hair...even its fingerprint is already determined.

And every human being has an immortal soul from the moment of conception.

I am nothing like the extremists shown in this video, which is a blatant tool for manipulation. For more than half the film, the focus is on Nazi atrocities and asking people what they would have done in that situation—and, of course, drawing a parallel with abortion. I simply maintain that an abortion performed within a reasonable timeframe after conception is not murder. You are cherry-picking extreme cases to justify your arguments. As for me—since you brought it up—I have no qualms about ending the suffering of an elderly, sick person whose illness will inevitably lead to death after a painful, agonizing decline. My father spent over a year bedridden and blind before he died. He was eager for it to end, yet he would have refused euthanasia due to his religious faith; he simply believed such an act was a sin that would have barred him from entering heaven. This is certainly not about getting rid of an elderly person because they are a burden or useless, or because someone wants to inherit their fortune. I would also point out that surplus embryos from in vitro fertilization—which can be stored frozen in liquid nitrogen for years—are usually destroyed. Do you consider that murder, too? Yes, as you say, it is very easy to find scientific facts. Why don't you look at them? They would confirm that there is no brain activity in the early stages of pregnancy.
It is very strange that you identify as Catholic, given your opposition to all forms of murder. For centuries, the Catholic Church did not hesitate to have millions of people murdered in the most horrific ways. It may appear to be a peaceful, open-minded organization now, but that was not the case for the vast majority of its history.

1) I am curious about what You set as a "reasonable timeframe".

2) I am very sorry to hear about the suffering of Your father. I can immagine how hard it must have been both for him and You. Still, I share the view of Your father that we don´t have the right to end a human life, mainly for the reason of our immortal soul.

3) I disagree with IVF for various reasons, and yes, it is ending human lives (in most cases).

4) We can gladly have a closer look on scientific facts. Even if there is no brain activity in the very first stages of human life, it does not change the fact that an embryo is a) living and b) a human being. And therefore, I disagree with abortion.

5) I am Catholic and I feel sorry for sins and crimes committed by Catholics nowadays and in the past. Yes, I disagree with murder. About the Crusades: it is such a complex topic that it is better to discuss it in another forum maybe, if necessary. - In very rare cases, wars can be justified: e. g. self-defense.

I am nothing like the extremists shown in this video, which is a blatant tool for manipulation. For more than half the film, the focus is on Nazi atrocities and asking people what they would have done in that situation—and, of course, drawing a parallel with abortion. I simply maintain that an abortion performed within a reasonable timeframe after conception is not murder. You are cherry-picking extreme cases to justify your arguments. As for me—since you brought it up—I have no qualms about ending the suffering of an elderly, sick person whose illness will inevitably lead to death after a painful, agonizing decline. My father spent over a year bedridden and blind before he died. He was eager for it to end, yet he would have refused euthanasia due to his religious faith; he simply believed such an act was a sin that would have barred him from entering heaven. This is certainly not about getting rid of an elderly person because they are a burden or useless, or because someone wants to inherit their fortune. I would also point out that surplus embryos from in vitro fertilization—which can be stored frozen in liquid nitrogen for years—are usually destroyed. Do you consider that murder, too? Yes, as you say, it is very easy to find scientific facts. Why don't you look at them? They would confirm that there is no brain activity in the early stages of pregnancy.
It is very strange that you identify as Catholic, given your opposition to all forms of murder. For centuries, the Catholic Church did not hesitate to have millions of people murdered in the most horrific ways. It may appear to be a peaceful, open-minded organization now, but that was not the case for the vast majority of its history.

You really can't without Catholic Church and religions in general. Catholic Church is composed of people and people make sins. That's why you have to look up what actually Catholic Church teaches and that it follows its founder, Jesus, and check what He was doing, what He was teaching and what He promised. If we apply your manipulative logic then you are a racist and a colonisator just because you are from France, a country which once enslaved very big part of world and still hold some places in its hands. Yet overall France is now better place to live than most parts of the world. But let's stick to the topic. I looked the scientific facts, you are the one who is ignoring them. Why do you say that the film is manipulation? Because you don't like when abortion is compared to nazism? Did the guy said anything wrong? Destroying embryos is a murder of course.

It seems talking to you worthless - the only thing you do is recycling lame excuses over and over, manipulating and lying. You seem to be intelligent person and not of bad character, why you keep sticking your head in sand I don't know. Nor I care, that's your problem. For your dad I am sorry that he suffered and I will pray for him. The guy in the movie said this line perfectly - if you are not sure is somebody in the building, would you demolish it? Science, which you keep blatantly ignoring says that life begins at conception. Despite you being very smart, you claim that the sperm is a human which is rediculous claim, sorry. When you realise that you didn't trick us, then you switched to the brain argument. Then you switched to eugenic argument packed into the "quality of life" argument. That's what pro-death people always do, they start with one theory and then gradually try to find new excuses when the previous false theory is debunked. That's the same story with cooking the frog and the water temperature.

If it's not a person until some time, then what it is before that? A dinosaur? It seems that people are very selfish and spoiled; if you suffer (we can't know will the person suffer in life) then automatically life is miserable. People who have children with down syndrome always says that they bring so much joy in their life even if those children have low quality of life and low inteligence. Pro-death people want to present themselves as open-minded while still advocating for getting rid of "unuseful" people - that's why it's the same what nazis and other morons did. Open-mindness means accepting everyone no matter of their physical and brain abilities. Also, how can you know that retards and disabled people aren't satisfied by their life? For example, in my town we have 2 retarded brothers who are now adults and both of them are always happy and cheer up everybody when they show up. Shall we kill them just because they don't fit the "normal" category? According to pro-death nazis, yes. That's sick.

Why everybody ignores my and MariaRosary's questions? We have asked a ton of questions and pro-death Leute only recycles their lame theories. Because you don't have an answer. You all at this forum seem like normal people, that's why you can't say that murder is OK, your consciousness is still working despite your attempts to ignore it. That's why you keep recycling lame theories and trying to manipulate and lying. By using manipulation and lies you try to convince yourselves and us that murder is OK. I think I know why you do it, but I won't say it here. Goodbye for now...or should I say Auf Wiedersehen?

Update: if I insulted anybody or make somebody feel bad, that's was not my intention. This is very emotional topic for me, that's why I get very upset. I like to be direct and I am aware that sometimes I cross the line because of that. If somebody felt bad or upset because of me, I apologise.

Since you mention the Catholic Church, let me remind you that its true founder wasn't Jesus Christ, but the Roman Emperor Constantine. He was a bloodthirsty warrior who unified his empire through violence; his victims included his own brother-in-law, his wife, and even his son. He was clearly not someone you could cross. He brought order to the Christian religion—which was then fractured into numerous sects and schools of thought—by convening the first council to finally determine which gospels were to be accepted as true; after all, many versions existed at the time, some of which contradicted one another. Under his authority, Christianity became the state religion, and the persecuted became the persecutors. Can Christians be sinful, being human? Of course, but there is a world of difference between minor sins and mass murder. Granted, life was short and held little value back then, but it seems to me that God should have paid closer attention to those following the "true religion."
Have you actually examined the scientific facts? Are you sure? Let me repeat: it takes 33 weeks for a fetus to react differently to painful versus non-painful stimuli, and this certainly doesn't indicate the onset of consciousness. That is well beyond the legal time limit for an abortion. That is a concrete fact. To me, without a mind, there is no human being. Why are you twisting my words? I never claimed that sperm or egg cells were human beings; I said they were living entities—just like microbes—because if they were dead, I doubt they could produce an embryo. You are confusing life with the mind. Preventing a cluster of cells from becoming a human being does not strike me as murder. Throughout history, adherents of the Catholic faith have eliminated those who did not believe in the "correct" way—individuals who were fully human and sensitive, and who must have screamed in pain and despair at the hands of their executioners. The stake was the preferred instrument for this. Yet today, the Church is the first to champion respect for human rights, despite being ill-suited to lecture others on humanity and morality. It is hardly surprising that its followers are becoming scarcer in churches on Sunday mornings.

Constantine didn't found Catholic Church; he got baptised just before he has died and he devlared Milano edictus or whatever its called in English to stop persecution of Christians. The term "Catholic" was already used by St Ignatius of Antioch in 110 AD - a long ago before Constantine was born. Check Mt 16:18 to see that Jesus found Catholic Church. I understand that your first thought when you wake up is Catholic Church and that it follows you through your whole day until you fall asleep, but you are becoming boring with bringing it in almost all topics. Me as a Catholic say that. You seem to be a man with high IQ, that's why I don't understand why you believe in pseudohistorical theories instead of using that brain for doing good deeds for which you are more than capable to do.

You are also cluster of cells. Your opinion that without mind we aren't humans... then what are we before formation of mind? Dinosaurus? Plants? Humans are always humans. Maybe mind is not ye tdeveloped but if's written in our DNA that it will start to form and nobody can stop that.

Can an animal or plant become human except in sci-fi films? Of course no. You mention 'legal time for abortion' again reffering to French law - what about laws in some countries with total ban on abortion? Why don't we refer to them?

still not a murder?

I think the decision is entirely up to the mother. Of course, her parents, the father of the fetus, and doctors play an important role in the decision. However, the woman's body and her life are changing. The fetus has no memories, it doesn't experience emotions... Abortion should of course be avoided if there are other options, but I would never tell anyone that the abortion they had was wrong. And I'm talking, of course, about cases where the fetus is small enough and the abortion is done under medical supervision.