People in coma can't experience pain or emotions. Should we kill them? Fetus isn't part of mother's body. Abortion is always a murder and any option is better than murder
We must not judge mothers nor anybody else, but we must judge their horrible act of murder.
...and offer better alternatives and help, e. g. like in the links I shared above.
Is a single sentence from the Gospel of Saint Matthew enough to prove Jesus Christ's intention to found the Catholic Church? Bear in mind that this Gospel was written decades after his death based on oral accounts; there are reasons to be skeptical. It certainly wasn't the Apostle Matthew who wrote the Gospel of Saint Matthew, but rather an anonymous author who never met Jesus and relied solely on oral testimony. Admittedly, the term "Catholic" was in use long before Constantine's time. That does not alter the fact that, following Constantine's reign, the Christian community experienced a major resurgence; he organized the Church to ensure greater uniformity in practices and beliefs and clarified certain dogmas. His sole reason for converting to Christianity was his conviction that he had achieved victory through God. Indeed, he was baptized only shortly before his death—precisely to obtain forgiveness for all the atrocities committed during his lifetime. It is a very convenient way to appear before God cleansed of all sin. The images you are showing us are truly repulsive. Does that mean I should call into question everything I have said so far? Life isn't always beautiful; what about miscarriages that occur at later stages of pregnancy, unwanted by the parents, yet God did nothing to prevent them? Once again, if those fetuses had been conscious of what was happening to them, I would be the first to say: "This must be banned." In my life, I have had to kill many animals for food; some screamed and struggled—they possessed more sensitivity than a fourteen-week-old fetus. I even had to send my herd of cows to the slaughterhouse when I retired. I sent to their deaths the very animals I had helped bring into the world, cared for throughout their lives, and which had shown me affection. The only thing one can do is minimize their suffering or become a vegetarian. You do not seem to realize the cruelty of life—yet it was God’s will.
Some countries strictly prohibit abortion; it is curious to note that many of them are often undemocratic and show little regard for human rights, and they frequently have the highest rates of capital punishment.
Some countries allow abortion at even later stages of pregnancy than France does, and they are far from being bloodthirsty dictatorships.
Stop trotting out that stupid argument: "We must not judge mothers nor anybody else, but we must judge their horrible act of murder." That is like saying: "I do not judge Hitler or Stalin, only the crimes involving the deaths of millions of people." Perhaps they were unaware of the gravity of their actions.
And you are back to your usual style and to your favourite topic, Catholic Church 😁. How do you know who wrote Gospel of Matthew and when? You were present there? Why would we have to trust to you rather than to history, common sense and God? In some forums you sticked to Bible literally when you thought it confirms your theories (lol it didn't) and now you talk against it when it doesn't suit your theories. I think that's called hipocricy. Your understanding of the Bible isn't much better than understanding of Christian fideists from USA.
You tried to lie about foundation of Catholic Church and now you try to save whatever you can when I revealed that you are lying more than Pinocchio (just my opinion, I hope that you really don't deliberately lie). Miscarriage isn't an abortion, nice try again. How do you know why Constantine wanted to be baptised? It clearly wasn't popular to accept Christianity back then because Christianity directly negated Roman panteism and negated that the Roman emperors were gods, so it was very unpopular decision. The thing which irritates you is the fact that Constantine gave freedom to Catholic Church, while you probably want to forbid Catholicism (just my opinion based on all of your comments in all forums. Of course I hope that I am wrong). Another false claim is that Constantine clarified dogmas - he wasn't a theologian and he wasn't a Catholic until shortly before his death so he surely didn't have enough knowledge or any authority to clarify any dogmas. If Constantine get baptised just to trick God, then of course he didn't succeeded, nobody can trick God, but we can't know about his motives - but, we as a good intended humans should think that his motives were honest. Why God allows bad things to happen...well I can also ask why God allows good things to happen - because life is like a test and that's God's will. Only heaven has zero bad things and only hell has zero good things, our current life have both good and bad things. People in comma aren't conscious of what happens, can we kill them as well? Your claim that humans, plants and animals have the same level of consciousness, sensitivity and emotions is unfounded and illogical and most of scientists, theologians (of any religion) and philosophers would say the same to you. If we become a vegetarians then, according to you, we are still murderers because we eat plants. I recommend that we stop breathing because we will kill microbes who are in the air 😂. Also I have never heard that people kill unborns to eat them. Maybe you have those tendencies?
Tell me which prolife countries destroy humans rights? Maybe Vatican or Andorra? If you think that France is not a bloodthirst keep in mind that it still have colonies directly such as New Caledonia, Guyana and Polynesia and indirectly such as Central African Republic, Mali and other countries between them. Just another proof that laws of the countries aren't always good moral guides.
You said this correctly: I can't judge Hitler and Stalin because I don't know were they aware of their actions. I can have an opinion, but I can never be 100 percent sure why were they doing such disgusting things. But I judge their behaviour and that's what also Catholicism and Jesus teach: "who is without sins, let him be the first to throw a rock". The same is with you, me or anybody else: in each sinner we have to see a person and help that person as much as possible and to try not to judge the person. That's called compassion. It seems that you have a problem with God's forgiveness; you really can't understand that God is wiling to forgive to anybody, but only if the person makes the first step - the parts of that first step for already baptised people you can find in captions on Adolf Hyla's painting which I shared on my profile. That's because God is perfect and loves us all without an exception. Not only Constantine is an example, for example you also have newer examples from my country - Josip Broz Tito and Josip (Joža) Manolić. You probably have heard for Tito before, he was a communist dictator of Yugoslavia who imprisoned Catholic priests, wanted to get rid of Vatican and he also imprisoned and poisoned to death blessed Alojzije Stepinac. However, there is a story that shortly before his death he invited a priest and made a confession - another example that Catholic Church never rejects anybody, not even people who hated the Church. Manolić was a high ranked communist (we both now what Catholic Church thinks about communism) and suspected for doing horrible things as well. He died 2 years ago, he was 104 years old. And guess what - he asked for confession and a priest came and gave him confession. Just another example that Catholic Church never rejects anybody.
Excuse me, but why do you find the images I shared repulsive? Those are images of abortion and you support abortion, so I don't understand why you have a problem with those images. Check them closely...check them closely to see for what you are advocating for.
But, we went offtopic. People here didn't come to talk about Christianity, so let's get back to original topic of abortion. Will you finally answer on my questions? I would also like to add a few more, all are connected to this topic:
Who are you to decide who should live or die?
How can a non-human magically become a human after certain period? If fetus isn't a human from the moment of conception, than what is it? A dinosaur, a plant, an animal or something else?
If we stick to national laws as our only criteria, that means that 13 week old fetus who is in France is not a human, but if he or she travel to some country which is completely prolife or has stricter abortion laws then it becomes human. And when they return to France, the fetus is again non-human. And if they travel to some of those countries again, then the fetus is a human again 😂😂😂. Etc, etc, etc,... Can't you see how stupid is that premise?
Now I will leave you to enjoy in your retirement and in summer. I'm also eagerly waiting for you to explain me how is Catholic Church responsible for summer heatwaves and for retirement age limit in France 😂
@Etienne, maybe it's time to close this forum because we constantly go offtopic
The images you are showing us are truly repulsive. Does that mean I should call into question everything I have said so far? Life isn't always beautiful; what about miscarriages that occur at later stages of pregnancy, unwanted by the parents, yet God did nothing to prevent them? Once again, if those fetuses had been conscious of what was happening to them, I would be the first to say: "This must be banned."
That would be remarkable. 🙂
Miscarriages are out of will, so no murder.
Even if the science does not see any neurological sign for consciousness or pain - those tiny embryos (check the pictures shared above) look perfectly human, don´t they?
We´ve probably said this several times before, but: it is not the consciousness or pain which makes "terminating a life" a crime but the fact that the victim is a human being.
That would be remarkable. 🙂
Miscarriages are out of will, so no murder.
Even if the science does not see any neurological sign for consciousness or pain - those tiny embryos (check the pictures shared above) look perfectly human, don´t they?
We´ve probably said this several times before, but: it is not the consciousness or pain which makes "terminating a life" a crime but the fact that the victim is a human being.
The mother is a human being too. One who is already fully developed, does indeed feel consciousness and pain.
Her life, her autonomy, her health and her future are not secondary. When we talk about “terminating a life,” we can’t ignore the person who already is a life in every meaningful sense with thoughts, emotions, relationships, responsibilities, and the ability to suffer in very real ways.
We won’t reach a shared conclusion here and that’s fine. But taking away all options for women to access abortion is wrong. It removes autonomy from a fully developed human being who can feel pain, consciousness, and consequences in a way an embryo cannot.
The mother is a human being too. One who is already fully developed, does indeed feel consciousness and pain. Her life, her autonomy, her health and her future are not secondary. When we talk about “terminating a life,” we can’t ignore the person who already is a life in every meaningful sense with thoughts, emotions, relationships, responsibilities, and the ability to suffer in very real ways.
We won’t reach a shared conclusion here and that’s fine. But taking away all options for women to access abortion is wrong. It removes autonomy from a fully developed human being who can feel pain, consciousness, and consequences in a way an embryo cannot.
Nobody forgets pregnant women, if you read our replies in unbiased way and with understanding you will see that. What about rights of unborn person? Baby is not part of mother's body and murder is not a right.
Just recycling again... unborns also suffer. If you think that abortion is pro-women think about this: victims of abortions are 75 % women: all mothers and half of babies. That's not my conclusion, that's St Mother Theresa's conclusion. She was also a woman as far as I know. Keep that in mind. Also keep in mind that her order is just one of many of then who offer help for everyone, including pregnant women.
Now, can you (or any other pro-death person) please answer me who are you to decide who should live and who should die? Is my English so bad that you don't understand what I am asking you all and you don't reply because of that. @MariaRosary maybe you should ask them that in German because we have seen that pro-death is not different from nazism so maybe they prefer only German language for conversation 🤷♂️.
Pro-death people want to have sex but they are unwilling to accept possible consequences of the sex. Children are not responsible for your inability to keep your clothes on.
Nobody forgets pregnant women, if you read our replies in unbiased way and with understanding you will see that. What about rights of unborn person? Baby is not part of mother's body and murder is not a right.
Just recycling again... unborns also suffer. If you think that abortion is pro-women think about this: victims of abortions are 75 % women: all mothers and half of babies. That's not my conclusion, that's St Mother Theresa's conclusion. She was also a woman as far as I know. Keep that in mind. Also keep in mind that her order is just one of many of then who offer help for everyone, including pregnant women.
Now, can you (or any other pro-death person) please answer me who are you to decide who should live and who should die? Is my English so bad that you don't understand what I am asking you all and you don't reply because of that. @MariaRosary maybe you should ask them that in German because we have seen that pro-death is not different from nazism so maybe they prefer only German language for conversation 🤷♂️.
Pro-death people want to have sex but they are unwilling to accept possible consequences of the sex. Children are not responsible for your inability to keep your clothes on.
If you think it could help...😉
"wer sind Sie, dass sie das Recht haben zu entscheiden, wer leben und wer sterben soll...?"
I am convinced that there is always a better solution than killing an unborn child. I myself am a woman, too, and I would rather prefer to die than to kill my child. Moreover, I have been supporting pro-life organization which offer any help for women in need (due to pregnancy). And I´d help anyone to find a foster or adoption family just in case it could save a life. 🙂
By the way, from my experience most women want to keep their child after birth (even if they were willing to give it to adoption in the past). Those women who receive help are way more happy for a lifetime than those who had an abortion.
Every child is a grace, a gift. Well, St. Mother Theresa said: if there is a child you don´t want, give it to me. - I´d gladly say the same.
