People in coma can't experience pain or emotions. Should we kill them? Fetus isn't part of mother's body. Abortion is always a murder and any option is better than murder
We must not judge mothers nor anybody else, but we must judge their horrible act of murder.
...and offer better alternatives and help, e. g. like in the links I shared above.
Is a single sentence from the Gospel of Saint Matthew enough to prove Jesus Christ's intention to found the Catholic Church? Bear in mind that this Gospel was written decades after his death based on oral accounts; there are reasons to be skeptical. It certainly wasn't the Apostle Matthew who wrote the Gospel of Saint Matthew, but rather an anonymous author who never met Jesus and relied solely on oral testimony. Admittedly, the term "Catholic" was in use long before Constantine's time. That does not alter the fact that, following Constantine's reign, the Christian community experienced a major resurgence; he organized the Church to ensure greater uniformity in practices and beliefs and clarified certain dogmas. His sole reason for converting to Christianity was his conviction that he had achieved victory through God. Indeed, he was baptized only shortly before his death—precisely to obtain forgiveness for all the atrocities committed during his lifetime. It is a very convenient way to appear before God cleansed of all sin. The images you are showing us are truly repulsive. Does that mean I should call into question everything I have said so far? Life isn't always beautiful; what about miscarriages that occur at later stages of pregnancy, unwanted by the parents, yet God did nothing to prevent them? Once again, if those fetuses had been conscious of what was happening to them, I would be the first to say: "This must be banned." In my life, I have had to kill many animals for food; some screamed and struggled—they possessed more sensitivity than a fourteen-week-old fetus. I even had to send my herd of cows to the slaughterhouse when I retired. I sent to their deaths the very animals I had helped bring into the world, cared for throughout their lives, and which had shown me affection. The only thing one can do is minimize their suffering or become a vegetarian. You do not seem to realize the cruelty of life—yet it was God’s will.
Some countries strictly prohibit abortion; it is curious to note that many of them are often undemocratic and show little regard for human rights, and they frequently have the highest rates of capital punishment.
Some countries allow abortion at even later stages of pregnancy than France does, and they are far from being bloodthirsty dictatorships.
Stop trotting out that stupid argument: "We must not judge mothers nor anybody else, but we must judge their horrible act of murder." That is like saying: "I do not judge Hitler or Stalin, only the crimes involving the deaths of millions of people." Perhaps they were unaware of the gravity of their actions.
And you are back to your usual style and to your favourite topic, Catholic Church 😁. How do you know who wrote Gospel of Matthew and when? You were present there? Why would we have to trust to you rather than to history, common sense and God? In some forums you sticked to Bible literally when you thought it confirms your theories (lol it didn't) and now you talk against it when it doesn't suit your theories. I think that's called hipocricy. Your understanding of the Bible isn't much better than understanding of Christian fideists from USA.
You tried to lie about foundation of Catholic Church and now you try to save whatever you can when I revealed that you are lying more than Pinocchio (just my opinion, I hope that you really don't deliberately lie). Miscarriage isn't an abortion, nice try again. How do you know why Constantine wanted to be baptised? It clearly wasn't popular to accept Christianity back then because Christianity directly negated Roman panteism and negated that the Roman emperors were gods, so it was very unpopular decision. The thing which irritates you is the fact that Constantine gave freedom to Catholic Church, while you probably want to forbid Catholicism (just my opinion based on all of your comments in all forums. Of course I hope that I am wrong). Another false claim is that Constantine clarified dogmas - he wasn't a theologian and he wasn't a Catholic until shortly before his death so he surely didn't have enough knowledge or any authority to clarify any dogmas. If Constantine get baptised just to trick God, then of course he didn't succeeded, nobody can trick God, but we can't know about his motives - but, we as a good intended humans should think that his motives were honest. Why God allows bad things to happen...well I can also ask why God allows good things to happen - because life is like a test and that's God's will. Only heaven has zero bad things and only hell has zero good things, our current life have both good and bad things. People in comma aren't conscious of what happens, can we kill them as well? Your claim that humans, plants and animals have the same level of consciousness, sensitivity and emotions is unfounded and illogical and most of scientists, theologians (of any religion) and philosophers would say the same to you. If we become a vegetarians then, according to you, we are still murderers because we eat plants. I recommend that we stop breathing because we will kill microbes who are in the air 😂. Also I have never heard that people kill unborns to eat them. Maybe you have those tendencies?
Tell me which prolife countries destroy humans rights? Maybe Vatican or Andorra? If you think that France is not a bloodthirst keep in mind that it still have colonies directly such as New Caledonia, Guyana and Polynesia and indirectly such as Central African Republic, Mali and other countries between them. Just another proof that laws of the countries aren't always good moral guides.
You said this correctly: I can't judge Hitler and Stalin because I don't know were they aware of their actions. I can have an opinion, but I can never be 100 percent sure why were they doing such disgusting things. But I judge their behaviour and that's what also Catholicism and Jesus teach: "who is without sins, let him be the first to throw a rock". The same is with you, me or anybody else: in each sinner we have to see a person and help that person as much as possible and to try not to judge the person. That's called compassion. It seems that you have a problem with God's forgiveness; you really can't understand that God is wiling to forgive to anybody, but only if the person makes the first step - the parts of that first step for already baptised people you can find in captions on Adolf Hyla's painting which I shared on my profile. That's because God is perfect and loves us all without an exception. Not only Constantine is an example, for example you also have newer examples from my country - Josip Broz Tito and Josip (Joža) Manolić. You probably have heard for Tito before, he was a communist dictator of Yugoslavia who imprisoned Catholic priests, wanted to get rid of Vatican and he also imprisoned and poisoned to death blessed Alojzije Stepinac. However, there is a story that shortly before his death he invited a priest and made a confession - another example that Catholic Church never rejects anybody, not even people who hated the Church. Manolić was a high ranked communist (we both now what Catholic Church thinks about communism) and suspected for doing horrible things as well. He died 2 years ago, he was 104 years old. And guess what - he asked for confession and a priest came and gave him confession. Just another example that Catholic Church never rejects anybody.
Excuse me, but why do you find the images I shared repulsive? Those are images of abortion and you support abortion, so I don't understand why you have a problem with those images. Check them closely...check them closely to see for what you are advocating for.
But, we went offtopic. People here didn't come to talk about Christianity, so let's get back to original topic of abortion. Will you finally answer on my questions? I would also like to add a few more, all are connected to this topic:
Who are you to decide who should live or die?
How can a non-human magically become a human after certain period? If fetus isn't a human from the moment of conception, than what is it? A dinosaur, a plant, an animal or something else?
If we stick to national laws as our only criteria, that means that 13 week old fetus who is in France is not a human, but if he or she travel to some country which is completely prolife or has stricter abortion laws then it becomes human. And when they return to France, the fetus is again non-human. And if they travel to some of those countries again, then the fetus is a human again 😂😂😂. Etc, etc, etc,... Can't you see how stupid is that premise?
Now I will leave you to enjoy in your retirement and in summer. I'm also eagerly waiting for you to explain me how is Catholic Church responsible for summer heatwaves and for retirement age limit in France 😂
@Etienne, maybe it's time to close this forum because we constantly go offtopic
The images you are showing us are truly repulsive. Does that mean I should call into question everything I have said so far? Life isn't always beautiful; what about miscarriages that occur at later stages of pregnancy, unwanted by the parents, yet God did nothing to prevent them? Once again, if those fetuses had been conscious of what was happening to them, I would be the first to say: "This must be banned."
That would be remarkable. 🙂
Miscarriages are out of will, so no murder.
Even if the science does not see any neurological sign for consciousness or pain - those tiny embryos (check the pictures shared above) look perfectly human, don´t they?
We´ve probably said this several times before, but: it is not the consciousness or pain which makes "terminating a life" a crime but the fact that the victim is a human being.
That would be remarkable. 🙂
Miscarriages are out of will, so no murder.
Even if the science does not see any neurological sign for consciousness or pain - those tiny embryos (check the pictures shared above) look perfectly human, don´t they?
We´ve probably said this several times before, but: it is not the consciousness or pain which makes "terminating a life" a crime but the fact that the victim is a human being.
The mother is a human being too. One who is already fully developed, does indeed feel consciousness and pain.
Her life, her autonomy, her health and her future are not secondary. When we talk about “terminating a life,” we can’t ignore the person who already is a life in every meaningful sense with thoughts, emotions, relationships, responsibilities, and the ability to suffer in very real ways.
We won’t reach a shared conclusion here and that’s fine. But taking away all options for women to access abortion is wrong. It removes autonomy from a fully developed human being who can feel pain, consciousness, and consequences in a way an embryo cannot.
The mother is a human being too. One who is already fully developed, does indeed feel consciousness and pain. Her life, her autonomy, her health and her future are not secondary. When we talk about “terminating a life,” we can’t ignore the person who already is a life in every meaningful sense with thoughts, emotions, relationships, responsibilities, and the ability to suffer in very real ways.
We won’t reach a shared conclusion here and that’s fine. But taking away all options for women to access abortion is wrong. It removes autonomy from a fully developed human being who can feel pain, consciousness, and consequences in a way an embryo cannot.
Nobody forgets pregnant women, if you read our replies in unbiased way and with understanding you will see that. What about rights of unborn person? Baby is not part of mother's body and murder is not a right.
Just recycling again... unborns also suffer. If you think that abortion is pro-women think about this: victims of abortions are 75 % women: all mothers and half of babies. That's not my conclusion, that's St Mother Theresa's conclusion. She was also a woman as far as I know. Keep that in mind. Also keep in mind that her order is just one of many of then who offer help for everyone, including pregnant women.
Now, can you (or any other pro-death person) please answer me who are you to decide who should live and who should die? Is my English so bad that you don't understand what I am asking you all and you don't reply because of that. @MariaRosary maybe you should ask them that in German because we have seen that pro-death is not different from nazism so maybe they prefer only German language for conversation 🤷♂️.
Pro-death people want to have sex but they are unwilling to accept possible consequences of the sex. Children are not responsible for your inability to keep your clothes on.
Nobody forgets pregnant women, if you read our replies in unbiased way and with understanding you will see that. What about rights of unborn person? Baby is not part of mother's body and murder is not a right.
Just recycling again... unborns also suffer. If you think that abortion is pro-women think about this: victims of abortions are 75 % women: all mothers and half of babies. That's not my conclusion, that's St Mother Theresa's conclusion. She was also a woman as far as I know. Keep that in mind. Also keep in mind that her order is just one of many of then who offer help for everyone, including pregnant women.
Now, can you (or any other pro-death person) please answer me who are you to decide who should live and who should die? Is my English so bad that you don't understand what I am asking you all and you don't reply because of that. @MariaRosary maybe you should ask them that in German because we have seen that pro-death is not different from nazism so maybe they prefer only German language for conversation 🤷♂️.
Pro-death people want to have sex but they are unwilling to accept possible consequences of the sex. Children are not responsible for your inability to keep your clothes on.
If you think it could help...😉
"wer sind Sie, dass sie das Recht haben zu entscheiden, wer leben und wer sterben soll...?"
I am convinced that there is always a better solution than killing an unborn child. I myself am a woman, too, and I would rather prefer to die than to kill my child. Moreover, I have been supporting pro-life organization which offer any help for women in need (due to pregnancy). And I´d help anyone to find a foster or adoption family just in case it could save a life. 🙂
By the way, from my experience most women want to keep their child after birth (even if they were willing to give it to adoption in the past). Those women who receive help are way more happy for a lifetime than those who had an abortion.
Every child is a grace, a gift. Well, St. Mother Theresa said: if there is a child you don´t want, give it to me. - I´d gladly say the same.
2 cases it should not be allowed for
-Female feticide.
-Not a minor/rape victim
The right to terminate a pregnancy is subject to specific conditions, and rightly so. Under no circumstances is it permissible to act without regard for the rules. It is disheartening to see obscurantism presuming to lecture on science and humanity. Citing Mother Teresa is utterly grotesque; her primary undertaking was running squalid "homes for the dying" where nothing was truly done to alleviate the suffering of the terminally ill. Her canonization was, above all, a way to glamorize the image of a Catholic Church in decline.
Listen @anil, you have all scientific and philosophical evidences presented here on forum and on elsewhere on the internet that life begins at the moment of conception. The science clearly says that. Humans are persons from the moment of conception because you can't become a person suddenly, you are either a person from the beginning or you aren't a person at all. Tell me please who are you to decide who should live and who should die - it seems that all of you child-slaughterers want to take the role of God whom you seem hate amd negate. Hipocricy?
You are pro-abortion because you are unable to distinct it from the Catholic Church which you hate on a patological level. Abortion is not only a religious question and please stop with your proselytism, people didn't come to this forum to listen about theology, especially if somebody (deliberarely) spread false pseudotheories, just like you do constantly here. Do you know what are the preconditions for cannosiation and who participate in it? Your claim that St Mother Theresa had homes (and still has) for sick people but that she also didn't care about them is self-contradictory; she even got the Nobel peace prize because of those things which you negate. Maybe Nobel comitee was wrong and you are right? Don't worry about Catholic Church's declining, Jesus has already promised that it will survive until the end of time so there won't be any decline or destroying despite your wishes 😊.
But let's stick to the topic. If you negate the science then you are either an uneducated person who isn't able to understand it or it's some deeper problem. You are definetly a highly intelligent person (in my opinion) so your problem is connected to some deeper level - you still try to push your false theories about science and Christianity despite being debunked here over and over. Maybe it's time to stop embarrassing yourself and to seek for a professional help to get rid of hate. It's never to late for a restart.
One more time your bad faith astounds me. I have never denied that a fetus is alive; as I’ve told you before, a sperm or an egg cell is just as alive as any cell in our bodies, or any bacterium or plant. It is not life itself that matters, but whether the organism in question possesses a sentient mind. You purpose is just to uphold your dogmas. I don’t claim to know everything, but I live in an era where finding information is far easier than it was forty years ago. You can find every possible viewpoint on a subject online; it is up to each individual to form their own opinion.You should give it a try.You should pay attention to that and carefully compare all the arguments. The downside is that people tend to seek out information that confirms their preconceived notions.
There is a great deal of controversy surrounding Mother Teresa; her primary activity involved gathering the dying and herding them into buildings without providing basic care or even pain relief. She was a fanatic who glorified suffering, yet she did not refuse painkillers when old age caught up with her. She never turned down money from dictators and croocks , passing it on to the Vatican instead of using it to help the poor. She was a fraud—much like Abbé Pierre in France, who preached morality while being a sexual predator. His sordid side was carefully concealed by the Catholic Church, which protected him throughout his career. Fortunately, modern communication channels make it easier for victims to speak out against their abusers. The decline of the Catholic Church seems obvious to me; one need only look at the sparse congregations at Sunday mass.
So, you're accusing me of being a killer of children with mental disorders just because I support abortion under certain conditions? It seems to me there must be millions of people like me. I don't think God cares about who has children and who doesn't.
Those cartoons are quite amusing. I would remind you, however, that the Catholic Church endorsed slavery and that a woman who is fourteen weeks pregnant doesn't have a belly that big. It's just more propaganda from Christian extremists.Here, too, what I assert is verifiable of course.
I just saw the topic and didnt read all comments carefully. I think it's women's right to abort, and it is a personal decision of theirs. Whether or not tabortion is accepted in any given religion or society should not "force" a woman to keep the child.
In Islam, it is said the fetus doese not have a soul until it is two months old, and abortion (if needed) should be done before it reached 2 months. I think in the past, abortion of genetically disabled fetus was allowed in Iran, I am not sure if it is still allowed or not.
But the point is what the "mother" believes in. It is said that souls come to this world to follow their calling or to compensate their work in previous lives as Karma. They choose the body, family and parents to live with. Even some souls choose to live with difficulties in a disabled body. Of course, after birth, as a human, we dont remember that we, ourselves, had chosen our life situation to make ourselves clear from our pasts, but our soul is aware of what is going on.
So it is said when we take the life of a fetus, we take this opportunity from its soul. This is one reason for those who oppose abortion. But doesnt everything happen based on God's will? So maybe this losing the opportunity was in their destiny from the begining, too. However, people who do not believe in God, Karma, etc., should act as they are pleased, I think.
As I said, decision about abortion is up to the mother's belief in life.
🌍
One more time your bad faith astounds me. I have never denied that a fetus is alive; as I’ve told you before, a sperm or an egg cell is just as alive as any cell in our bodies, or any bacterium or plant. It is not life itself that matters, but whether the organism in question possesses a sentient mind. You purpose is just to uphold your dogmas. I don’t claim to know everything, but I live in an era where finding information is far easier than it was forty years ago. You can find every possible viewpoint on a subject online; it is up to each individual to form their own opinion.You should give it a try.You should pay attention to that and carefully compare all the arguments. The downside is that people tend to seek out information that confirms their preconceived notions.
There is a great deal of controversy surrounding Mother Teresa; her primary activity involved gathering the dying and herding them into buildings without providing basic care or even pain relief. She was a fanatic who glorified suffering, yet she did not refuse painkillers when old age caught up with her. She never turned down money from dictators and croocks , passing it on to the Vatican instead of using it to help the poor. She was a fraud—much like Abbé Pierre in France, who preached morality while being a sexual predator. His sordid side was carefully concealed by the Catholic Church, which protected him throughout his career. Fortunately, modern communication channels make it easier for victims to speak out against their abusers. The decline of the Catholic Church seems obvious to me; one need only look at the sparse congregations at Sunday mass.
So, you're accusing me of being a killer of children with mental disorders just because I support abortion under certain conditions? It seems to me there must be millions of people like me. I don't think God cares about who has children and who doesn't.
Those cartoons are quite amusing. I would remind you, however, that the Catholic Church endorsed slavery and that a woman who is fourteen weeks pregnant doesn't have a belly that big. It's just more propaganda from Christian extremists.Here, too, what I assert is verifiable of course.
So to sum up, you still deny the scientific conclusions (the most important is that life begins at the moment of the conception when brand new DNA is formed, not before conception, not a second after conception, not 12 weeks after conception, it happens exactly at the moment of conception), you still try to sell us your pseudoscience and pseudohistory despite being debunked over and over, you still hate and spread lies about Catholic Church, you claim you know better about Mother Theresa than Nobel prize comitee who gave her the peace award, you don't understand what are painkillers, you are unable to understand that abortion isn't only a religious question, you are still a religious fanatic who aggressively promotes atheism, you still refuse to answer to any question which me and @MariaRosary asked,... Maybe we should really start asking our questions in German here since it's the language which some other pro-death ideologists have used, so it's maybe an universal language for pro-death ideology? It seems you don't understand questions when they are asked in English because you avoid answering on them...
To conclude you are boring and repetitive. But you are also very intelligent so it's sad that you use your intelligence and your free time as a fresh retired person to spread pseudofacts.
Maybe this can help you to get rid of the patological hate towards Catholic Church
https://www.santepubliquefrance.fr/en/post-traumatic-stress/find-medical-and-psychological-help
@Dreamofpeace, who cares what me, you or anybody other thinks if the science clearly says that abortion is a murder? Why pro-death people always "forget" to mention children's rights (btw, abortion/murder can't be classified as a right)? You only rant about mothers - well the mother should know that sex can result in pregnancy. Also, if she was raped, how can child be responsible for raping? Why to punish child who is completely innocent instead of punishing the rapist? I repeat: the scince clearly says that life begins at the moment of conception which means all abortions are murders. Even the word abortus means terminating - in this case terminating the life.
Mentioning Islam and Iran as the ultimate guides for human rights is hilarious. It's even more hilarious when you mention Islam and Karma in the same post. Karma is present in religions which originates from East Asia and Himalayas, definetly not in Islam. Also Islam doesn't teach you to idolise syncretic gurus, Islam teaches you to believe in God. Sorry if my post made you, @anil or any other person uncomfortable, that wasn't my intention. I hope you all understand that
Abortion is not only a religious question or natioan laws question. Not all people have same religion and not all people live in the same countries. Murder is a univeesal question. Oder wollt ihr vielleicht alle, dass uns allen die Gesetze des Todes auferlegt werden? Alles in einem Lebensraum (ein Volk, ein Reich) 🙋♂️?
So to sum up, you still deny the scientific conclusions (the most important is that life begins at the moment of the conception when brand new DNA is formed, not before conception, not a second after conception, not 12 weeks after conception, it happens exactly at the moment of conception), you still try to sell us your pseudoscience and pseudohistory despite being debunked over and over, you still hate and spread lies about Catholic Church, you claim you know better about Mother Theresa than Nobel prize comitee who gave her the peace award, you don't understand what are painkillers, you are unable to understand that abortion isn't only a religious question, you are still a religious fanatic who aggressively promotes atheism, you still refuse to answer to any question which me and @MariaRosary asked,... Maybe we should really start asking our questions in German here since it's the language which some other pro-death ideologists have used, so it's maybe an universal language for pro-death ideology? It seems you don't understand questions when they are asked in English because you avoid answering on them...
To conclude you are boring and repetitive. But you are also very intelligent so it's sad that you use your intelligence and your free time as a fresh retired person to spread pseudofacts.
Maybe this can help you to get rid of the patological hate towards Catholic Church
https://www.santepubliquefrance.fr/en/post-traumatic-stress/find-medical-and-psychological-help
@Liveinpeace, who cares what me, you or anybody other thinks if the science clearly says that abortion is a murder? Why pro-death people always "forget" to mention children's rights (btw, abortion/murder can't be classified as a right)? You only rant about mothers - well the mother should know that sex can result in pregnancy. Also, if she was raped, how can child be responsible for raping? Why to punish child who is completely innocent instead of punishing the rapist? I repeat: the scince clearly says that life begins at the moment of conception which means all abortions are murders. Even the word abortus means terminating - in this case terminating the life.
Mentioning Islam and Iran as the ultimate guides for human rights is hilarious. It's even more hilarious when you mention Islam and Karma in the same post. Karma is present in religions which originates from East Asia and Himalayas, definetly not in Islam. Also Islam doesn't teach you to idolise syncretic gurus, Islam teaches you to believe in God. Sorry if my post made you, @anil or any other person uncomfortable, that wasn't my intention. I hope you all understand that
Abortion is not only a religious question or natioan laws question. Not all people have same religion and not all people live in the same countries. Murder is a univeesal question. Oder wollt ihr vielleicht alle, dass uns allen die Gesetze des Todes auferlegt werden? Alles in einem Lebensraum (ein Volk, ein Reich) 🙋♂️?
1. Please provide us with valid scientific resources which say abortion is murder, and there is no scientific resource/ right to abort.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7476658/
2. I mentioned mothers, becaused they are the ones who suffer the pregnancy and giving birth. And in case of rape, you think letting a child with no clear father and maybe future is mercy? In this case we murder the child's future and let them live a miserable life. Let aside the difficulties that the mother should go through raising them.
3. Read the comments more carefully please, dear pal. I didnt mention Iran and Islam as "guide"! I just expressed what is going on here and what muslims think. Any other person from other religions can inform us about their thoughts as well. In addition, using the word "hilarious" about somebody's talks on such a forum is not appropriate.
4. This is not a contest to win. It is "sharing opinions".
🌍
1. Please provide us with valid scientific resources which say abortion is murder, and there is no scientific resource/ right to abort.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7476658/
2. I mentioned mothers, becaused they are the ones who suffer the pregnancy and giving birth. And in case of rape, you think letting a child with no clear father and maybe future is mercy? In this case we murder the child's future and let them live a miserable life. Let aside the difficulties that the mother should go through raising them.
3. Read the comments more carefully please, dear pal. I didnt mention Iran and Islam as "guide"! I just expressed what is going on here and what muslims think. Any other person from other religions can inform us about their thoughts as well. In addition, using the word "hilarious" about somebody's talks on such a forum is not appropriate.
4. This is not a contest to win. It is "sharing opinions".
🌍
1. https://acpeds.org/when-human-life-begins/
This is the view of biology about when a human is a human. It says that once the sperm amd the egg cojoin to form a zygote it is a human and the only diffrence between a tsygote and a adult if the form. So now that we have established what a human is we should look at the word murder. The dictionart states that murder is unlawfull killing of another human. So yes to put it simply abortion is murder and heres the scientific reasonings you asked.
2. Would you really use the word suffer when talking about carrying a human being and keeping it safe until it can survive on its own. Is that the rigth term?
I know plenty of people without fathers or mothers and not having a father dosnet mean your life is ment to fail. It is mercy cause why would someone punish a child for theyr fathers mistakes.
Also abortion due to rape or other exreame reasons is rare and i think should not use such extreame cases as a example when we are talking about the whole thing.
The mother dosnet dessesary have to raise the kid its enough that she gave it a chance to live. There are foster families, adoption centers being without parents dosnet mean your life is lost you can still live it and that its the greatest thing.
1. https://acpeds.org/when-human-life-begins/
This is the view of biology about when a human is a human. It says that once the sperm amd the egg cojoin to form a zygote it is a human and the only diffrence between a tsygote and a adult if the form. So now that we have established what a human is we should look at the word murder. The dictionart states that murder is unlawfull killing of another human. So yes to put it simply abortion is murder and heres the scientific reasonings you asked.
2. Would you really use the word suffer when talking about carrying a human being and keeping it safe until it can survive on its own. Is that the rigth term?
I know plenty of people without fathers or mothers and not having a father dosnet mean your life is ment to fail. It is mercy cause why would someone punish a child for theyr fathers mistakes.
Also abortion due to rape or other exreame reasons is rare and i think should not use such extreame cases as a example when we are talking about the whole thing.
📸️The mother dosnet dessesary have to raise the kid its enough that she gave it a chance to live. There are foster families, adoption centers being without parents dosnet mean your life is lost you can still live it and that its the greatest thing.
1. You talked scientifically, and scientific articles of the highest rank Journals say abortion is not murder. In addition to the very high ranked website which I mentioned in the previous comments, two other references are: (Please check the ranking of Springer and PubMed (NIH) in SCIENCE).
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/utilitas/article/does-abortion-harm-the-fetus/E9D3C83334B503E0EBBFFF4641C32E4E
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11017-025-09737-y
The second one (from SPRINGER.COM) says abortion is not murder before the age of 10 weeks (two months as is said in Islam, which I mentioned as an "example perspective").
2. Would you talk and judge about pregnancy after being raped or any kind of unwilling sex such easily IF it happened to you as a woman? Would you have the same opinion IF you were born severely disabled? Wouldn't you wish to die instead of suffering? I sincerely hope you are ALWAYS healthy and happy, but just imagine that for a second.
3. Based on the pie chart you uploaded, I guess you also agree on abortion due to "logical and scientific" reasons, but you don't agree on abortion for elective reasons. In this case, yes, abortion is not accepted UNLESS there is of course a rigid reason for it. For example, if a mother understands there is something seriously wrong with the child (after a check up, or simply after an accident).
1. You talked scientifically, and scientific articles of the highest rank Journals say abortion is not murder. In addition to the very high ranked website which I mentioned in the previous comments, two other references are: (Please check the ranking of Springer and PubMed (NIH) in SCIENCE).
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/utilitas/article/does-abortion-harm-the-fetus/E9D3C83334B503E0EBBFFF4641C32E4Ehttps://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11017-025-09737-y
The second one (from SPRINGER.COM) says abortion is not murder before the age of 10 weeks (two months as is said in Islam, which I mentioned as an "example perspective").
2. Would you talk and judge about pregnancy after being raped or any kind of unwilling sex such easily IF it happened to you as a woman? Would you have the same opinion IF you were born severely disabled? Wouldn't you wish to die instead of suffering? I sincerely hope you are ALWAYS healthy and happy, but just imagine that for a second.
3. Based on the pie chart you uploaded, I guess you also agree on abortion due to "logical and scientific" reasons, but you don't agree on abortion for elective reasons. In this case, yes, abortion is not accepted UNLESS there is of course a rigid reason for it. For example, if a mother understands there is something seriously wrong with the child (after a check up, or simply after an accident).
1. Scientificly human being is something that has its own DNA and that forms are conseption.
2. You still know that abortion bacause of rape happens rarely that using such exreame examples dont work when talking about it overall. And who says im judging i just proved a fact.
And even if i was born severly disabled i would still love to live. Even if tomorrow i became bed bound and in terrible pains, disabled i still woulndt want to die. Id rather live suffering than to give up this amazing gift that has been given to me.
Im against abortion for moral, scientific and religious reasons. Mainly religious but i decided it most likely wouldnt bring me any results if i started preaching Christianity to a muslim.
I dont think under any circumstanse abortion is okay. Its always a terrible loss.