Abortion

You are surely a good person. I simply regret that you reason based on hypocritical religious dogmas. What is incorrect about what I’m saying? If the fetus isn't sufficiently developed, there aren't enough nerve cells or neuronal connections for the organism to feel the slightest emotion—terror, despair, or hatred. In that case, terminating it isn't murder; there isn't even a mind worthy of the name. I never said it wasn't alive; I simply say it has no more consciousness than an earthworm. Of course, I acknowledge that at a certain stage of development, destroying it might begin to resemble murder.
Fortunately, I have never had to decide who lives or dies. It must be truly harrowing for a woman to carry, give birth to, and even raise a child conceived through rape. Preventing that strikes me as a deeply humane act—just like preventing the birth of a severely deformed child, or an excessive number of children who are malnourished, uneducated, and unloved.
You know, you remind me of a very famous saint in France: Bernadette Soubirous. In the late 19th century, her parents were destitute yet still had nine children; only four reached adulthood, and only one lived to old age. Despite this, people back then thanked God for the blessings He had bestowed upon them and weren't shocked by the cruelty of that life—so much so that Bernadette dedicated her life to the Lord. There was no need for abortion; malnutrition and disease took care of that. Yet, it seems to me that some form of birth control could have prevented many tragedies. The small diagram shown above my post is incorrect; it is not an adult person who suddenly appears at fertilization.

I have already explained what is incorrect in your claims, read my previous answers. My point of view is based on religion and on science. Do you know why I am a Catholic? Because I find it the most logical and because of my personal experience. Some of my family members hate Catholic Church and one of my parents is an atheist, so I think that I am more objective than 99% of people when it comes about religion. But, let's stick to the topic. Despite being Catholic, have I ever used any religious reason here? No, I used scientific reasons because I am aware that not all people are Catholics and abortion is not only religious question. On the other hand science is universal and it's not hard to check the facts. You are probably smarter than all of us who discuss here, you speak English on an excellent level so you are more than capable to research it on your own.

Along with science, I also used the moral principle which I strongly believe that it should be universal - the principle that killing the most vulnerable persons is a horror. At least we agree that nobody wants to see people suffering. That's why we have to help any woman before, during and after she give birth. The thing that you advocate for murder is problematic. Murder isn't helping. And yes, it's a murder, science clearly says that life begins at the moment of conception. If we start to use mind as a decisive factor, then we should kill all retards. That's eugenic. Where is the line then? When we kill all people with IQ under a certain level, after that the bar will be raised and gradually everybody will be scheduled for being murdered except true geniuses. And there is still a question which everybody seems to avoid: who are we to decide who should live and who should die? Are all people equal? If we are all equal then we should give everybody a chance regardless of the race, ethnicity, age, intelligence level and other things. If we want to be trully open-minded, to accept the differences and to end discrimination, then we should start treating all people equally no matter are they 1 second old and in the womb or are they 100 years old. Here is a film which lasts only half an hour and it explains quite well why abortion is always unnacteptable (the author belongs to different branch of Christianity than me so we disagree on some things but overall he sum the abortion problem well): https://youtu.be/7y2KsU_dhwI?si=ieuOGmmWeLjn8e0G

What is incorrect about what I’m saying? If the fetus isn't sufficiently developed, there aren't enough nerve cells or neuronal connections for the organism to feel the slightest emotion—terror, despair, or hatred. In that case, terminating it isn't murder; there isn't even a mind worthy of the name. I never said it wasn't alive; I simply say it has no more consciousness than an earthworm. Of course, I acknowledge that at a certain stage of development, destroying it might begin to resemble murder.

Why is terminating a human life (after birth) a crime then? Think about it in general.

Immagine an adult human being is out of conscience, in coma, narcosis, faint, with neurological defficiency - is anybody allowed to kill this human being then?

The lack of consciousness or emotions cannot justify the murder on a human being after birth. So the lack of suspected consciousness or emotions cannot justify to kill an unborn human being either.

Elderly people with demencia are kind of mentally absent. They have serious neurological deficiencies. But this does not justify a murder.

At which stage of development you set the border? When do you think it is not okay anymore to kill this human being? And why? Just for the number of cells?

During my studies I learnt stunning things about the development of embryos and I suppose you would be surprised how much they already take notice e. g. their reactions to music etc.

Have you heard about the documentary "The Silent Scream" with former abortionist doctor Nathanson? He stopped aborting unborn children after he watched what he had done. - indeed, the unborn child was crying, it had immense fear - just outside the body, it was not possible to "hear" it.

In my opinion, we are never allowed to end a human life - regardless the stage of development. In fact, this tiny little human being is absolutely unique. All the genetic data is there from the very first moment: colour of eyes, hair...even its fingerprint is already determined.

And every human being has an immortal soul from the moment of conception.

I am nothing like the extremists shown in this video, which is a blatant tool for manipulation. For more than half the film, the focus is on Nazi atrocities and asking people what they would have done in that situation—and, of course, drawing a parallel with abortion. I simply maintain that an abortion performed within a reasonable timeframe after conception is not murder. You are cherry-picking extreme cases to justify your arguments. As for me—since you brought it up—I have no qualms about ending the suffering of an elderly, sick person whose illness will inevitably lead to death after a painful, agonizing decline. My father spent over a year bedridden and blind before he died. He was eager for it to end, yet he would have refused euthanasia due to his religious faith; he simply believed such an act was a sin that would have barred him from entering heaven. This is certainly not about getting rid of an elderly person because they are a burden or useless, or because someone wants to inherit their fortune. I would also point out that surplus embryos from in vitro fertilization—which can be stored frozen in liquid nitrogen for years—are usually destroyed. Do you consider that murder, too? Yes, as you say, it is very easy to find scientific facts. Why don't you look at them? They would confirm that there is no brain activity in the early stages of pregnancy.
It is very strange that you identify as Catholic, given your opposition to all forms of murder. For centuries, the Catholic Church did not hesitate to have millions of people murdered in the most horrific ways. It may appear to be a peaceful, open-minded organization now, but that was not the case for the vast majority of its history.

1) I am curious about what You set as a "reasonable timeframe".

2) I am very sorry to hear about the suffering of Your father. I can immagine how hard it must have been both for him and You. Still, I share the view of Your father that we don´t have the right to end a human life, mainly for the reason of our immortal soul.

3) I disagree with IVF for various reasons, and yes, it is ending human lives (in most cases).

4) We can gladly have a closer look on scientific facts. Even if there is no brain activity in the very first stages of human life, it does not change the fact that an embryo is a) living and b) a human being. And therefore, I disagree with abortion.

5) I am Catholic and I feel sorry for sins and crimes committed by Catholics nowadays and in the past. Yes, I disagree with murder. About the Crusades: it is such a complex topic that it is better to discuss it in another forum maybe, if necessary. - In very rare cases, wars can be justified: e. g. self-defense.

I am nothing like the extremists shown in this video, which is a blatant tool for manipulation. For more than half the film, the focus is on Nazi atrocities and asking people what they would have done in that situation—and, of course, drawing a parallel with abortion. I simply maintain that an abortion performed within a reasonable timeframe after conception is not murder. You are cherry-picking extreme cases to justify your arguments. As for me—since you brought it up—I have no qualms about ending the suffering of an elderly, sick person whose illness will inevitably lead to death after a painful, agonizing decline. My father spent over a year bedridden and blind before he died. He was eager for it to end, yet he would have refused euthanasia due to his religious faith; he simply believed such an act was a sin that would have barred him from entering heaven. This is certainly not about getting rid of an elderly person because they are a burden or useless, or because someone wants to inherit their fortune. I would also point out that surplus embryos from in vitro fertilization—which can be stored frozen in liquid nitrogen for years—are usually destroyed. Do you consider that murder, too? Yes, as you say, it is very easy to find scientific facts. Why don't you look at them? They would confirm that there is no brain activity in the early stages of pregnancy.
It is very strange that you identify as Catholic, given your opposition to all forms of murder. For centuries, the Catholic Church did not hesitate to have millions of people murdered in the most horrific ways. It may appear to be a peaceful, open-minded organization now, but that was not the case for the vast majority of its history.

You really can't without Catholic Church and religions in general. Catholic Church is composed of people and people make sins. That's why you have to look up what actually Catholic Church teaches and that it follows its founder, Jesus, and check what He was doing, what He was teaching and what He promised. If we apply your manipulative logic then you are a racist and a colonisator just because you are from France, a country which once enslaved very big part of world and still hold some places in its hands. Yet overall France is now better place to live than most parts of the world. But let's stick to the topic. I looked the scientific facts, you are the one who is ignoring them. Why do you say that the film is manipulation? Because you don't like when abortion is compared to nazism? Did the guy said anything wrong? Destroying embryos is a murder of course.

It seems talking to you worthless - the only thing you do is recycling lame excuses over and over, manipulating and lying. You seem to be intelligent person and not of bad character, why you keep sticking your head in sand I don't know. Nor I care, that's your problem. For your dad I am sorry that he suffered and I will pray for him. The guy in the movie said this line perfectly - if you are not sure is somebody in the building, would you demolish it? Science, which you keep blatantly ignoring says that life begins at conception. Despite you being very smart, you claim that the sperm is a human which is rediculous claim, sorry. When you realise that you didn't trick us, then you switched to the brain argument. Then you switched to eugenic argument packed into the "quality of life" argument. That's what pro-death people always do, they start with one theory and then gradually try to find new excuses when the previous false theory is debunked. That's the same story with cooking the frog and the water temperature.

If it's not a person until some time, then what it is before that? A dinosaur? It seems that people are very selfish and spoiled; if you suffer (we can't know will the person suffer in life) then automatically life is miserable. People who have children with down syndrome always says that they bring so much joy in their life even if those children have low quality of life and low inteligence. Pro-death people want to present themselves as open-minded while still advocating for getting rid of "unuseful" people - that's why it's the same what nazis and other morons did. Open-mindness means accepting everyone no matter of their physical and brain abilities. Also, how can you know that retards and disabled people aren't satisfied by their life? For example, in my town we have 2 retarded brothers who are now adults and both of them are always happy and cheer up everybody when they show up. Shall we kill them just because they don't fit the "normal" category? According to pro-death nazis, yes. That's sick.

Why everybody ignores my and MariaRosary's questions? We have asked a ton of questions and pro-death Leute only recycles their lame theories. Because you don't have an answer. You all at this forum seem like normal people, that's why you can't say that murder is OK, your consciousness is still working despite your attempts to ignore it. That's why you keep recycling lame theories and trying to manipulate and lying. By using manipulation and lies you try to convince yourselves and us that murder is OK. I think I know why you do it, but I won't say it here. Goodbye for now...or should I say Auf Wiedersehen?

Update: if I insulted anybody or make somebody feel bad, that's was not my intention. This is very emotional topic for me, that's why I get very upset. I like to be direct and I am aware that sometimes I cross the line because of that. If somebody felt bad or upset because of me, I apologise.

Since you mention the Catholic Church, let me remind you that its true founder wasn't Jesus Christ, but the Roman Emperor Constantine. He was a bloodthirsty warrior who unified his empire through violence; his victims included his own brother-in-law, his wife, and even his son. He was clearly not someone you could cross. He brought order to the Christian religion—which was then fractured into numerous sects and schools of thought—by convening the first council to finally determine which gospels were to be accepted as true; after all, many versions existed at the time, some of which contradicted one another. Under his authority, Christianity became the state religion, and the persecuted became the persecutors. Can Christians be sinful, being human? Of course, but there is a world of difference between minor sins and mass murder. Granted, life was short and held little value back then, but it seems to me that God should have paid closer attention to those following the "true religion."
Have you actually examined the scientific facts? Are you sure? Let me repeat: it takes 33 weeks for a fetus to react differently to painful versus non-painful stimuli, and this certainly doesn't indicate the onset of consciousness. That is well beyond the legal time limit for an abortion. That is a concrete fact. To me, without a mind, there is no human being. Why are you twisting my words? I never claimed that sperm or egg cells were human beings; I said they were living entities—just like microbes—because if they were dead, I doubt they could produce an embryo. You are confusing life with the mind. Preventing a cluster of cells from becoming a human being does not strike me as murder. Throughout history, adherents of the Catholic faith have eliminated those who did not believe in the "correct" way—individuals who were fully human and sensitive, and who must have screamed in pain and despair at the hands of their executioners. The stake was the preferred instrument for this. Yet today, the Church is the first to champion respect for human rights, despite being ill-suited to lecture others on humanity and morality. It is hardly surprising that its followers are becoming scarcer in churches on Sunday mornings.

Constantine didn't found Catholic Church; he got baptised just before he has died and he devlared Milano edictus or whatever its called in English to stop persecution of Christians. The term "Catholic" was already used by St Ignatius of Antioch in 110 AD - a long ago before Constantine was born. Check Mt 16:18 to see that Jesus found Catholic Church. I understand that your first thought when you wake up is Catholic Church and that it follows you through your whole day until you fall asleep, but you are becoming boring with bringing it in almost all topics. Me as a Catholic say that. You seem to be a man with high IQ, that's why I don't understand why you believe in pseudohistorical theories instead of using that brain for doing good deeds for which you are more than capable to do.

You are also cluster of cells. Your opinion that without mind we aren't humans... then what are we before formation of mind? Dinosaurus? Plants? Humans are always humans. Maybe mind is not ye tdeveloped but if's written in our DNA that it will start to form and nobody can stop that.

Can an animal or plant become human except in sci-fi films? Of course no. You mention 'legal time for abortion' again reffering to French law - what about laws in some countries with total ban on abortion? Why don't we refer to them?

still not a murder?

I think the decision is entirely up to the mother. Of course, her parents, the father of the fetus, and doctors play an important role in the decision. However, the woman's body and her life are changing. The fetus has no memories, it doesn't experience emotions... Abortion should of course be avoided if there are other options, but I would never tell anyone that the abortion they had was wrong. And I'm talking, of course, about cases where the fetus is small enough and the abortion is done under medical supervision.

People in coma can't experience pain or emotions. Should we kill them? Fetus isn't part of mother's body. Abortion is always a murder and any option is better than murder

We must not judge mothers nor anybody else, but we must judge their horrible act of murder.

People in coma can't experience pain or emotions. Should we kill them? Fetus isn't part of mother's body. Abortion is always a murder and any option is better than murder

We must not judge mothers nor anybody else, but we must judge their horrible act of murder.

...and offer better alternatives and help, e. g. like in the links I shared above.

Is a single sentence from the Gospel of Saint Matthew enough to prove Jesus Christ's intention to found the Catholic Church? Bear in mind that this Gospel was written decades after his death based on oral accounts; there are reasons to be skeptical. It certainly wasn't the Apostle Matthew who wrote the Gospel of Saint Matthew, but rather an anonymous author who never met Jesus and relied solely on oral testimony. Admittedly, the term "Catholic" was in use long before Constantine's time. That does not alter the fact that, following Constantine's reign, the Christian community experienced a major resurgence; he organized the Church to ensure greater uniformity in practices and beliefs and clarified certain dogmas. His sole reason for converting to Christianity was his conviction that he had achieved victory through God. Indeed, he was baptized only shortly before his death—precisely to obtain forgiveness for all the atrocities committed during his lifetime. It is a very convenient way to appear before God cleansed of all sin. The images you are showing us are truly repulsive. Does that mean I should call into question everything I have said so far? Life isn't always beautiful; what about miscarriages that occur at later stages of pregnancy, unwanted by the parents, yet God did nothing to prevent them? Once again, if those fetuses had been conscious of what was happening to them, I would be the first to say: "This must be banned." In my life, I have had to kill many animals for food; some screamed and struggled—they possessed more sensitivity than a fourteen-week-old fetus. I even had to send my herd of cows to the slaughterhouse when I retired. I sent to their deaths the very animals I had helped bring into the world, cared for throughout their lives, and which had shown me affection. The only thing one can do is minimize their suffering or become a vegetarian. You do not seem to realize the cruelty of life—yet it was God’s will.
Some countries strictly prohibit abortion; it is curious to note that many of them are often undemocratic and show little regard for human rights, and they frequently have the highest rates of capital punishment.
Some countries allow abortion at even later stages of pregnancy than France does, and they are far from being bloodthirsty dictatorships.
Stop trotting out that stupid argument: "We must not judge mothers nor anybody else, but we must judge their horrible act of murder." That is like saying: "I do not judge Hitler or Stalin, only the crimes involving the deaths of millions of people." Perhaps they were unaware of the gravity of their actions.

And you are back to your usual style and to your favourite topic, Catholic Church 😁. How do you know who wrote Gospel of Matthew and when? You were present there? Why would we have to trust to you rather than to history, common sense and God? In some forums you sticked to Bible literally when you thought it confirms your theories (lol it didn't) and now you talk against it when it doesn't suit your theories. I think that's called hipocricy. Your understanding of the Bible isn't much better than understanding of Christian fideists from USA.

You tried to lie about foundation of Catholic Church and now you try to save whatever you can when I revealed that you are lying more than Pinocchio (just my opinion, I hope that you really don't deliberately lie). Miscarriage isn't an abortion, nice try again. How do you know why Constantine wanted to be baptised? It clearly wasn't popular to accept Christianity back then because Christianity directly negated Roman panteism and negated that the Roman emperors were gods, so it was very unpopular decision. The thing which irritates you is the fact that Constantine gave freedom to Catholic Church, while you probably want to forbid Catholicism (just my opinion based on all of your comments in all forums. Of course I hope that I am wrong). Another false claim is that Constantine clarified dogmas - he wasn't a theologian and he wasn't a Catholic until shortly before his death so he surely didn't have enough knowledge or any authority to clarify any dogmas. If Constantine get baptised just to trick God, then of course he didn't succeeded, nobody can trick God, but we can't know about his motives - but, we as a good intended humans should think that his motives were honest. Why God allows bad things to happen...well I can also ask why God allows good things to happen - because life is like a test and that's God's will. Only heaven has zero bad things and only hell has zero good things, our current life have both good and bad things. People in comma aren't conscious of what happens, can we kill them as well? Your claim that humans, plants and animals have the same level of consciousness, sensitivity and emotions is unfounded and illogical and most of scientists, theologians (of any religion) and philosophers would say the same to you. If we become a vegetarians then, according to you, we are still murderers because we eat plants. I recommend that we stop breathing because we will kill microbes who are in the air 😂. Also I have never heard that people kill unborns to eat them. Maybe you have those tendencies?

Tell me which prolife countries destroy humans rights? Maybe Vatican or Andorra? If you think that France is not a bloodthirst keep in mind that it still have colonies directly such as New Caledonia, Guyana and Polynesia and indirectly such as Central African Republic, Mali and other countries between them. Just another proof that laws of the countries aren't always good moral guides.

You said this correctly: I can't judge Hitler and Stalin because I don't know were they aware of their actions. I can have an opinion, but I can never be 100 percent sure why were they doing such disgusting things. But I judge their behaviour and that's what also Catholicism and Jesus teach: "who is without sins, let him be the first to throw a rock". The same is with you, me or anybody else: in each sinner we have to see a person and help that person as much as possible and to try not to judge the person. That's called compassion. It seems that you have a problem with God's forgiveness; you really can't understand that God is wiling to forgive to anybody, but only if the person makes the first step - the parts of that first step for already baptised people you can find in captions on Adolf Hyla's painting which I shared on my profile. That's because God is perfect and loves us all without an exception. Not only Constantine is an example, for example you also have newer examples from my country - Josip Broz Tito and Josip (Joža) Manolić. You probably have heard for Tito before, he was a communist dictator of Yugoslavia who imprisoned Catholic priests, wanted to get rid of Vatican and he also imprisoned and poisoned to death blessed Alojzije Stepinac. However, there is a story that shortly before his death he invited a priest and made a confession - another example that Catholic Church never rejects anybody, not even people who hated the Church. Manolić was a high ranked communist (we both now what Catholic Church thinks about communism) and suspected for doing horrible things as well. He died 2 years ago, he was 104 years old. And guess what - he asked for confession and a priest came and gave him confession. Just another example that Catholic Church never rejects anybody.

Excuse me, but why do you find the images I shared repulsive? Those are images of abortion and you support abortion, so I don't understand why you have a problem with those images. Check them closely...check them closely to see for what you are advocating for.

But, we went offtopic. People here didn't come to talk about Christianity, so let's get back to original topic of abortion. Will you finally answer on my questions? I would also like to add a few more, all are connected to this topic:

Who are you to decide who should live or die?

How can a non-human magically become a human after certain period? If fetus isn't a human from the moment of conception, than what is it? A dinosaur, a plant, an animal or something else?

If we stick to national laws as our only criteria, that means that 13 week old fetus who is in France is not a human, but if he or she travel to some country which is completely prolife or has stricter abortion laws then it becomes human. And when they return to France, the fetus is again non-human. And if they travel to some of those countries again, then the fetus is a human again 😂😂😂. Etc, etc, etc,... Can't you see how stupid is that premise?

Now I will leave you to enjoy in your retirement and in summer. I'm also eagerly waiting for you to explain me how is Catholic Church responsible for summer heatwaves and for retirement age limit in France 😂

@Etienne, maybe it's time to close this forum because we constantly go offtopic

The images you are showing us are truly repulsive. Does that mean I should call into question everything I have said so far? Life isn't always beautiful; what about miscarriages that occur at later stages of pregnancy, unwanted by the parents, yet God did nothing to prevent them? Once again, if those fetuses had been conscious of what was happening to them, I would be the first to say: "This must be banned."

That would be remarkable. 🙂

Miscarriages are out of will, so no murder.

Even if the science does not see any neurological sign for consciousness or pain - those tiny embryos (check the pictures shared above) look perfectly human, don´t they?

We´ve probably said this several times before, but: it is not the consciousness or pain which makes "terminating a life" a crime but the fact that the victim is a human being.

That would be remarkable. 🙂

Miscarriages are out of will, so no murder.

Even if the science does not see any neurological sign for consciousness or pain - those tiny embryos (check the pictures shared above) look perfectly human, don´t they?

We´ve probably said this several times before, but: it is not the consciousness or pain which makes "terminating a life" a crime but the fact that the victim is a human being.

The mother is a human being too. One who is already fully developed, does indeed feel consciousness and pain. Her life, her autonomy, her health and her future are not secondary. When we talk about “terminating a life,” we can’t ignore the person who already is a life in every meaningful sense with thoughts, emotions, relationships, responsibilities, and the ability to suffer in very real ways.

We won’t reach a shared conclusion here and that’s fine. But taking away all options for women to access abortion is wrong. It removes autonomy from a fully developed human being who can feel pain, consciousness, and consequences in a way an embryo cannot.

The mother is a human being too. One who is already fully developed, does indeed feel consciousness and pain. Her life, her autonomy, her health and her future are not secondary. When we talk about “terminating a life,” we can’t ignore the person who already is a life in every meaningful sense with thoughts, emotions, relationships, responsibilities, and the ability to suffer in very real ways.

We won’t reach a shared conclusion here and that’s fine. But taking away all options for women to access abortion is wrong. It removes autonomy from a fully developed human being who can feel pain, consciousness, and consequences in a way an embryo cannot.

Nobody forgets pregnant women, if you read our replies in unbiased way and with understanding you will see that. What about rights of unborn person? Baby is not part of mother's body and murder is not a right.

Just recycling again... unborns also suffer. If you think that abortion is pro-women think about this: victims of abortions are 75 % women: all mothers and half of babies. That's not my conclusion, that's St Mother Theresa's conclusion. She was also a woman as far as I know. Keep that in mind. Also keep in mind that her order is just one of many of then who offer help for everyone, including pregnant women.

Now, can you (or any other pro-death person) please answer me who are you to decide who should live and who should die? Is my English so bad that you don't understand what I am asking you all and you don't reply because of that. @MariaRosary maybe you should ask them that in German because we have seen that pro-death is not different from nazism so maybe they prefer only German language for conversation 🤷‍♂️.

Pro-death people want to have sex but they are unwilling to accept possible consequences of the sex. Children are not responsible for your inability to keep your clothes on.

Nobody forgets pregnant women, if you read our replies in unbiased way and with understanding you will see that. What about rights of unborn person? Baby is not part of mother's body and murder is not a right.

Just recycling again... unborns also suffer. If you think that abortion is pro-women think about this: victims of abortions are 75 % women: all mothers and half of babies. That's not my conclusion, that's St Mother Theresa's conclusion. She was also a woman as far as I know. Keep that in mind. Also keep in mind that her order is just one of many of then who offer help for everyone, including pregnant women.

Now, can you (or any other pro-death person) please answer me who are you to decide who should live and who should die? Is my English so bad that you don't understand what I am asking you all and you don't reply because of that. @MariaRosary maybe you should ask them that in German because we have seen that pro-death is not different from nazism so maybe they prefer only German language for conversation 🤷‍♂️.

Pro-death people want to have sex but they are unwilling to accept possible consequences of the sex. Children are not responsible for your inability to keep your clothes on.

If you think it could help...😉

"wer sind Sie, dass sie das Recht haben zu entscheiden, wer leben und wer sterben soll...?"

I am convinced that there is always a better solution than killing an unborn child. I myself am a woman, too, and I would rather prefer to die than to kill my child. Moreover, I have been supporting pro-life organization which offer any help for women in need (due to pregnancy). And I´d help anyone to find a foster or adoption family just in case it could save a life. 🙂

By the way, from my experience most women want to keep their child after birth (even if they were willing to give it to adoption in the past). Those women who receive help are way more happy for a lifetime than those who had an abortion.

Every child is a grace, a gift. Well, St. Mother Theresa said: if there is a child you don´t want, give it to me. - I´d gladly say the same.