Abortion

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I’m not saying we should encourage murder but I think if a woman has been sexually abused and therefore becomes pregnant and her “partner” and family leave her I don’t think her social situation will allow for her to look after her child. I think in this situation an abortion would be best because why should an innocent child come into this world only to suffer and be emotionally deprived of its parents… just a thought.

So you say that it's better to kill the child instead of giving him or her chance to live?

Circumstance of conception doesn't define how your life will be. If we say that all people are equal, then we should treat all people equally and give them chance to be born and to live. If we start to choose who can live and who can't then we aren't different from Hitler, Stalin, Attila, Mao Zedong and other mass murderers - they killed people because they considered them as burden. They used different methods but they had the same logic - more powerful person decides who will live which is unacceptable. If a woman isn't in good social or economical situation, she can always give child for adoption and she can seek for help; there are many individuals and pro-life organisations which provide help for abandoned mothers. There are many women who were raped and impoverished during the war in my country but they choose to give birth and their children are grateful for that.

Let's apply pro-death argument of poverty to this situation: If woman and her 5 year old child are suddenly abandoned and left alone in poverty, is it OK to kill that child as well?

Once there was unborn person whose father was addicted to alcohol and he didn't have good relationship with him. His family was poor and his mother wanted to abort/kill him before he was born. His brother was addicted to alcohol and drugs. So, according to pro-death people, that child is predestined to have terrible life. His name is Cristiano Ronaldo.

So you say that it's better to kill the child instead of giving him or her chance to live?

Circumstance of conception doesn't define how your life will be. If we say that all people are equal, then we should treat all people equally and give them chance to be born and to live. If we start to choose who can live and who can't then we aren't different from Hitler, Stalin, Attila, Mao Zedong and other mass murderers - they killed people because they considered them as burden. They used different methods but they had the same logic - more powerful person decides who will live which is unacceptable. If a woman isn't in good social or economical situation, she can always give child for adoption and she can seek for help; there are many individuals and pro-life organisations which provide help for abandoned mothers. There are many women who were raped and impoverished during the war in my country but they choose to give birth and their children are grateful for that.

Let's apply pro-death argument of poverty to this situation: If woman and her 5 year old child are suddenly abandoned and left alone in poverty, is it OK to kill that child as well?

Once there was unborn person whose father was addicted to alcohol and he didn't have good relationship with him. His family was poor and his mother wanted to abort/kill him before he was born. His brother was addicted to alcohol and drugs. So, according to pro-death people, that child is predestined to have terrible life. His name is Cristiano Ronaldo.

What You are saying is generally... Right, I personally consider abortion as something completely wrong, tragedious, evil even, often.

But would You put a blame of "murder" on girl in such situation? Because it's very unfair. Life is too complex to expect that everyone will be walking embodiment of right choices.

And You can't, just can't tell which one is more right and less wrong: abortion/mother that gives birth to child but will commit suicide/surrender due to situation and inability to deal with it mentally.

In some situations it's just not so simple, world is not like that.

So while I am pro life and against abortion as "oh, it's just uncomfortable" - it is not so simple to tell someone what exactly life means, for who, and predict the consequences.

I don’t think abortion is an easy choice for any women. Okay let’s say there are shelters for women which they may be able to use to help them but what if they loneliness leads them to become drug addicts or alcohol addicts (I’m not saying this happens all the time) but this might lead the mothers to be abusive towards their child. We have so many adults who come forward and talk about how abuse has shaped their lives and how it’s still impacting them.

https://www.profemina.org/de-de

https://www.1000plus.net/de-de

Recommendations for women in a pregnancy conflict. It is not only for Germans.

https://www.profemina.org/de-de

https://www.1000plus.net/de-de

Recommendations for women in a pregnancy conflict. It is not only for Germans.

It’s in German…

It’s in German…

Sure, the main page is in German, but they offer help also for women from abroad and in foreign languages. 🙂

https://www.1000plus.net/de-de/kontakt

https://www.profemina.org/de-de

there is the option to change the language top right

Ohhhh thanks

Ohhhh thanks

my pleasure


What You are saying is generally... Right, I personally consider abortion as something completely wrong, tragedious, evil even, often.

But would You put a blame of "murder" on girl in such situation? Because it's very unfair. Life is too complex to expect that everyone will be walking embodiment of right choices.

And You can't, just can't tell which one is more right and less wrong: abortion/mother that gives birth to child but will commit suicide/surrender due to situation and inability to deal with it mentally.

In some situations it's just not so simple, world is not like that.

So while I am pro life and against abortion as "oh, it's just uncomfortable" - it is not so simple to tell someone what exactly life means, for who, and predict the consequences.

You say it's unfair to blame someone for murder? Is it fair to take the life of an innocent human being? Abortion is the deliberate killing of a child before birth and that is a biological and moral fact, not just an opinion.

The abortion industry (large corporations that profit from this) treats human life as a commodity. There are serious reports and controversies regarding the trade of fetal organs and tissue from these procedures - this is the ultimate dehumanization where a child's body is treated as "spare parts" for profit. These organizations don't care about women; they perform the procedure, take the money, and leave the woman alone to face the trauma and guilt that often lead to severe depression.

Regarding suicide, medical studies and data cited by experts show that the risk of mental health problems and suicide rates are actually higher after an abortion compared to women who carry their pregnancy to term, even in difficult circumstances. Abortion is not a solution for mental health issues; it is a new source of trauma. If a woman is in distress, she needs real support, psychiatric care and compassion - not a murder.

In the case of abortion, one life is CERTAINLY taken. In your example of suicide, it is a tragic POSSIBILITY that we must work to prevent through support, not by killing someone else.

As for life's complexity, look at before mentioned Cristiano Ronaldo. By pro-death ideologists he was predestined to have terrible life. And somehow he became world class footballer with excellent athleticism and longevity. Every child deserves that chance, no matter how difficult the situation seems at the start.

I don’t think abortion is an easy choice for any women. Okay let’s say there are shelters for women which they may be able to use to help them but what if they loneliness leads them to become drug addicts or alcohol addicts (I’m not saying this happens all the time) but this might lead the mothers to be abusive towards their child. We have so many adults who come forward and talk about how abuse has shaped their lives and how it’s still impacting them.

I understand your concern, nobody wants to see abused children. But does that justify deliberate ending the life of completely innocent and vulnerable children?

There are no "let's say" shelters, there are actual shelters specifically designed for pregnant women in distress. If my country (which has lower economical standard than yours) has shelters, I am sure that your country has even better ones. There are also many international organisations with same mission. Regarding abusing and becoming addicted, check Cristiano Ronaldo's example.

Edited by Korisnik .

You say it's unfair to blame someone for murder? Is it fair to take the life of an innocent human being? Abortion is the deliberate killing of a child before birth and that is a biological and moral fact, not just an opinion.

The abortion industry (large corporations that profit from this) treats human life as a commodity. There are serious reports and controversies regarding the trade of fetal organs and tissue from these procedures - this is the ultimate dehumanization where a child's body is treated as "spare parts" for profit. These organizations don't care about women; they perform the procedure, take the money, and leave the woman alone to face the trauma and guilt that often lead to severe depression.

Regarding suicide, medical studies and data cited by experts show that the risk of mental health problems and suicide rates are actually higher after an abortion compared to women who carry their pregnancy to term, even in difficult circumstances. Abortion is not a solution for mental health issues; it is a new source of trauma. If a woman is in distress, she needs real support, psychiatric care and compassion - not a murder.

In the case of abortion, one life is CERTAINLY taken. In your example of suicide, it is a tragic POSSIBILITY that we must work to prevent through support, not by killing someone else.

As for life's complexity, look at before mentioned Cristiano Ronaldo. By pro-death ideologists he was predestined to have terrible life. And somehow he became world class footballer with excellent athleticism and longevity. Every child deserves that chance, no matter how difficult the situation seems at the start.

I understand your concern, nobody wants to see abused children. But does that justify deliberate ending the life of completely innocent and vulnerable children?

There are no "let's say" shelters, there are actual shelters specifically designed for pregnant women in distress. If my country (which has lower economical standard than yours) has shelters, I am sure that your country has even better ones. There are also many international organisations with same mission. Maria gave you 2 examples but there are more of them. Regarding abusing and becoming addicted, check Cristiano Ronaldo's example.

Yes, I will say it again: blaming someone of murder, in situation You have no idea about, is unright.

You call this a murder - do You even know how many people don't consider it this way? Without judging if it is or not - use the strongest words You want, it's your perception. I agree, generally, but it doesn't matter.

You are no less emotional here, than another person, earlier in this topic, who was pro-choice.

Also, from what I know, there is no data showing that abortion is predictor of traumas or that after this proceder mental health is going down. Give me data if You have, (you of course will find something for pro life - and for pro choice side, because there are studies made for each worldview and thesis. But It's methodologically problematic) but Im still saying: people deciding for abortion, usually presents different perspective of when the life of human starts and don't consider it as "murder".

And don't talk about abortion industry, how evil it is, etc, because I know all of that, Ive heard that, don't make this discussion drifting away.

There is difference between abortion on demand as solution to birth - and - rare, but real and still happening situations when it's related to health problems, condition of potential mother or child and just... Circumstances. And You are not in position to blame young women who makes such decision, because you don't know her and don't know the case.

Blame the groups that propagate such proceder as something normal and good and as human right, but don't feel qualified to make judgments about little percent of specifical and fragile cases where it's not so simple.

Edited by Oxiu .

idk guys war kills people too

Yes, I will say it again: blaming someone of murder, in situation You have no idea about, is unright.

You call this a murder - do You even know how many people don't consider it this way? Without judging if it is or not - use the strongest words You want, it's your perception. I agree, generally, but it doesn't matter.

You are no less emotional here, than another person, earlier in this topic, who was pro-choice.

Also, from what I know, there is no data showing that abortion is predictor of traumas or that after this proceder mental health is going down. Give me data if You have, (you of course will find something for pro life - and for pro choice side, because there are studies made for each worldview and thesis. But It's methodologically problematic) but Im still saying: people deciding for abortion, usually presents different perspective of when the life of human starts and don't consider it as "murder".

And don't talk about abortion industry, how evil it is, etc, because I know all of that, Ive heard that, don't make this discussion drifting away.

There is difference between abortion on demand as solution to birth - and - rare, but real and still happening situations when it's related to health problems, condition of potential mother or child and just... Circumstances. And You are not in position to blame young women who makes such decision, because you don't know her and don't know the case.

Blame the groups that propagate such proceder as something normal and good and as human right, but don't feel qualified to make judgments about little percent of specifical and fragile cases where it's not so simple.

Life begins at the moment of conception not because I said so, but because it's a biological fact (new and unique DNA). That means that abortion is always murder and murder is always an unacceptable act.

Genuinely surprised this isn't locked yet but the [bundle of sticks] thread is.

There's a very old joke that can aptly summarise this entire argument:

1.Pro life

2.Pro murder

3.What race is it

I tend to sit on a fence in most political arguments between the right and left and religion and science.


Although on this topic I feel like religion and science align and agree that life begins at conception. That would mean abortion is a no no.


Personally I think rare circumstances should be exempt like rape or harm to the mother etc.


However, as a person who was given up by biological parents as a baby and spent their life in the foster care system, I wouldn't wish that life on anyone. And although I survived and made a life for myself and have my own child, there were plenty of times I went dark and wished for death and wished that I myself would have been aborted.


If you don't want your child, whether you abort or not I think the odds are against that child in some way.


I think we just need more love in this world

I tend to sit on a fence in most political arguments between the right and left and religion and science.


Although on this topic I feel like religion and science align and agree that life begins at conception. That would mean abortion is a no no.


Personally I think rare circumstances should be exempt like rape or harm to the mother etc.


However, as a person who was given up by biological parents as a baby and spent their life in the foster care system, I wouldn't wish that life on anyone. And although I survived and made a life for myself and have my own child, there were plenty of times I went dark and wished for death and wished that I myself would have been aborted.


If you don't want your child, whether you abort or not I think the odds are against that child in some way.


I think we just need more love in this world

So you say that murder is sometimes acceptable? I don't think so. Murder can't cancel the rape. If mother's life is endangered, she MAY die or survive but in case of abortion/murder one person SURELY dies and maybe even mother die as well. I'm sorry that you had traumatic childhood but you are a real example of strong character who won unfavourable circumstances and I congratulate you for that. Shouldn't all people get that chance? If you were murdered, you won't be able to get that chance. Also you've mentioned that you wished to be aborted/murdered when you felt depression (you couldn't think rationally back then because of youe depression). Now when you are safe and sound, I am sure you've changed your mind.

Religion and science aren't in contrast, they are perfectly compatible. But murder/abortion isn't only political or religious question, all civilized and rational people should be against murder regardless of their political preferences or their religion

So you say that murder is sometimes acceptable? I don't think so. Murder can't cancel the rape. If mother's life is endangered, she MAY die or survive but in case of abortion/murder one person SURELY dies and maybe even mother die as well. I'm sorry that you had traumatic childhood but you are a real example of strong character who won unfavourable circumstances and I congratulate you for that. Shouldn't all people get that chance? If you were murdered, you won't be able to get that chance. Also you've mentioned that you wished to be aborted/murdered when you felt depression (you couldn't think rationally back then because of youe depression). Now when you are safe and sound, I am sure you've changed your mind.

Religion and science aren't in contrast, they are perfectly compatible. But murder/abortion isn't only political or religious question, all civilized and rational people should be against murder regardless of their political preferences or their religion


The key word in everything you say is "Murder". That sounds like a legal term and legally at least in my country abortion isn't considered as such even if that's your moral opinion.

I think we largely agree against abortion, but as someone who actually lived the life of a person who suffered systemic abuse both physical and sexual and has a number of mental health conditions as a result of parents who didn't want them, yes I would say in extreme circumstances where the mother is in harms way we should think of the person who is right in front of us over the person who is yet to be.


It's a difficult choice, and one I'd probably choose my own baby over myself, but I feel like people should at least have the choice in those extreme circumstances that are rare.


We should focus on our similarities rather than our differences ❤️

Hello everyone.

Im aware im young and people my age dont nessesary have fully devoleped views about things yet and im no diffrent however I resently wrote an ethics analysis on this topic so id like to say i have looked at quite a few options regarding this topic so i hope thats enough so i can make a intellectual point.

My personal opinion is formed mostly based on christian values i have been taugth as a child but more as acepting since most people around me belive its a huge sin.

My opinion is in the middle on the scale im not againt abortion but im not on its side either. I personally would not do it but i do think its good that women have a choice on weather to do it or not. But only in cases like it being a non good pregnancy like rape or incest or it causing major health problems for the baby or the mother. But the unnessesary abortion should stop or atleast decreace significantly the ones where its not the rigth time or i dont want children. One third of people i know are in stable foster homes or have been adopted by nice families and have a lot nicer life than me and all that was achived by not aborting them. My opinion is that we should put our focus on helping these women who want abortion not shame them to not do it as i have seen many times online and in various places but to help them not do it giving them a support network giving financial aid and improving orphanages and foster home systems but still give them the opinion to choose in the end.


I hope my point was understandable in this text.

Both of you mentioned word "choice". If you commit murder/abortion, you leave no choice to unborn person, you leave him/her only death. I agree that we should offer any type of help to pregnant women both during the pregnancy and after birth, but murder/abortion isn't help. Yes I call it murder because I prefer to use right terms. The fact that it isn't considered murder in your country is irrelevant, it's still a murder because you are killing person (unborn is not "yet to be person", it's an unique person with his/her own unique DNA). Speaking about rape, health ussues and other similar things, I think I have explained everything in my previous posts - it's still a murder and it is never acceptable. I am glad that both of you claim you will probably choose life which I appreciate very and I hope you will start to protect all lives. We are all equal and all of us should have human rights and right to live and be born is the fundamental right and precondition to all other rights