🤷‍♀️🧙‍♂️ True or false? 🙄❓ Anything and everything

The entire education system is usually free in France. Some even qualify for free housing. On paper it's nice, but in reality it's a significant waste of money: too many students pursue higher education. How is too many possible, you might ask? Well, we need some manual labor to run a country, which there is a lack of because every kid wants to go to university (understandable individually speaking, but not scalable as a society). Not everyone is suited for long studies, too many students sign up because it's free, so "why not", then end up dropping out which is straight up wasted taxpayers money (over 10,000 euro per student per year if my memory serves me right). Not to mention the countless useless university degrees that are handed out every year in dubious fields. Long story short, I still support free education, but only:
- for students who have good potential and are serious about their endeavor
- for useful degrees such as STEM fields or anything else in high demand

Sure you should be free to try higher studies if you've had bad grades, or try to get a degree in something that that won't land you a real job, but don't demand tax money to be subsidizing these

I would like to see a certain level of equality of opportunity created through support. In Germany, the gap between rich and poor is now very wide. This continues in education. Rich means the best schools, the best training. Poor means the opposite. Unfortunately, this means that a lot of talent is not even recognized. That is a great shame for these people... I think everyone should have similar opportunities.

The entire education system is usually free in France. Some even qualify for free housing. On paper it's nice, but in reality it's a significant waste of money: too many students pursue higher education. How is too many possible, you might ask? Well, we need some manual labor to run a country, which there is a lack of because every kid wants to go to university (understandable individually speaking, but not scalable as a society). Not everyone is suited for long studies, too many students sign up because it's free, so "why not", then end up dropping out which is straight up wasted taxpayers money (over 10,000 euro per student per year if my memory serves me right). Not to mention the countless useless university degrees that are handed out every year in dubious fields. Long story short, I still support free education, but only:
- for students who have good potential and are serious about their endeavor
- for useful degrees such as STEM fields or anything else in high demand

Sure you should be free to try higher studies if you've had bad grades, or try to get a degree in something that that won't land you a real job, but don't demand tax money to be subsidizing these

Never heard of free housing in France for students. I also don't think that the problem comes from """free""" studies, but more from the fact that labor work are despised by society and taught to be bad by school teachers.

I don't think that university is for good students either, for you don't really need to be smart to end up there and I think having this system with welfare like scholarships and/or financial help to get bed, roof, food... is actually a very nice thing. In my opinion, the problem is more to say that manual jobs are bad and for stupid people, leading to 1) students to go to university without purpose, 2) only leaving incompetent/careless people as manual workers. Another problem is that some students, like you point out i guess, are still doing their bachelor after 7 years and/or change their field every year, don't care at all about their results/work.

However, I think you are right about the degree. In a race to give everyone a seat at the university, many diploma are just not worth it.

For the 10k/year, I think you are too nice. If it cost 10k/year for university, then you forget all what is around and make higher education everything but free. With APL, Crous room/studio (that are sometimes in bad shape...), scholarship, you can easily double that sum.

Also, and despite university being "free", you won't see a lot of children from workers there. People having a scholarship aren't the rule either, so most of students either are fully supported by their parents or have to work beside.
On my part, I think the welfare in France is enough to survive if you get a good scholarship (if you don't have a nice and rich family), at least when you are outside of Paris and it's good to have it so that grades don't get affected by having to work between courses, or at least not more than a few hours.

Yes @Yue my children wanne study my son now is 19 they other to are smaller but they will also 🤲🤲

Thank you very much @Pennarossa2024, @Etienne, @mabah, @Lianshen and @Fleurke!! 😊😊

In my country it is a little bit different than in France because you get money from the government BUTTT you have to pay it back unless you get your degree. So it is not always for free.

But it is not enough for studying. So you need to get money from your parents or work or from the bank. But for me later i think from work because my parents are not very rich and i dont want to ask them money. And from the bank is dangerous i think if you borrow a lot.

Thank you very much @Pennarossa2024, @Etienne, @mabah, @Lianshen and @Fleurke!! 😊😊

In my country it is a little bit different than in France because you get money from the government BUTTT you have to pay it back unless you get your degree. So it is not always for free.

But it is not enough for studying. So you need to get money from your parents or work or from the bank. But for me later i think from work because my parents are not very rich and i dont want to ask them money. And from the bank is dangerous i think if you borrow a lot.

My kids also work in the weekend @Yue im a mam who lived alone with 3 kids so the gouverments money is not enoufg

Never heard of free housing in France for students. I also don't think that the problem comes from """free""" studies, but more from the fact that labor work are despised by society and taught to be bad by school teachers.

Student housing is technically not free, but you can add up multiple welfare mechanisms (such as those you mentioned) to end up making it virtually free. Yes labor work has a bad reputation, which is definitely related. Unfortunately it feels like today is all about what people feel like doing, not what they can/should do

For the 10k/year, I think you are too nice. If it cost 10k/year for university, then you forget all what is around and make higher education everything but free. With APL, Crous room/studio (that are sometimes in bad shape...), scholarship, you can easily double that sum.

Absolutely (I just checked the number which looks to be 12.5k)

My daughter studies and we finance it with about 1000€ monthly. The fee of the university is only about 200 per semester but she has her own flat and needs food. She also works (home office) for a business related to her study. We don`t get money from the government but there is a veeery little amount we get by taxes. My husband and I just earn too much, but 1000€ is still pretty much for us. My son is 17 and still visits school. Two students would be very hard to finance.

My daughter studies and we finance it with about 1000€ monthly. The fee of the university is only about 200 per semester but she has her own flat and needs food. She also works (home office) for a business related to her study. We don`t get money from the government but there is a veeery little amount we get by taxes. My husband and I just earn too much, but 1000€ is still pretty much for us. My son is 17 and still visits school. Two students would be very hard to finance.

1000 € 😮😨

My daughter studies and we finance it with about 1000€ monthly. The fee of the university is only about 200 per semester but she has her own flat and needs food. She also works (home office) for a business related to her study. We don`t get money from the government but there is a veeery little amount we get by taxes. My husband and I just earn too much, but 1000€ is still pretty much for us. My son is 17 and still visits school. Two students would be very hard to finance.

That is a LOTTT of money!! 😯😯 I hope that it is enough if later I get from the government and maybe work in some evenings or perhaps in the weekend with a job. And we live close to Amsterdam so I can maybe stay at home so that is already a big difference. Because i dont think that my mom and dad can pay anything in the month and I dont want that too. But if we live together and they have jobs and I can maybe work too a bit that is easier. 🙂

My daughter studies and we finance it with about 1000€ monthly.

Unless I misunderstood, your daughter's schooling does not cost €1,000 a month contrary to what your first statement implies: her housing and groceries do. As per your explanation, it seems that education costs 200/3 = 67€ a month, which sounds very cheap to me

Of course if you happen to live far from the university you want to attend, you need to find accommodation which generates extra expenses. But I'm not sure I would factor it into the cost of education, just like you probably wouldn't factor rent/groceries into a job - you will have to sustain these expenses regardless

Recent research shows how, in Italy, the average fee for students enrolled in public universities fluctuates between €900 and €1000, while for private universities it reaches an average of €3408 for year. Instead, a master's degree at a public university costs on average €3543 for year.

But @Etienne there is also a difference I think. Because if you pay for a lot of things and you are in university you cant work a lot to pay everything. But if you have the same things that you have to pay but you are working like maybe 40 or 50 hours you can pay for everything easier. I spoke only with my mom and not with my dad yet. But she said I can work if i study later BUTTT not so much that the studies are less important. That is difficult because you have to pay so much. 🙁

There are so big differences between what you have to pay for the universities @Pennarossa2024 in Italy!! I dont know how much that is in The Netherlands. 🙄🙄

Today I did not post a new statement because a lot of people discuss now this topic in the forum. That is very nice so thank you everybody!! 🙏🙏 We have now like a mega discussion forum about the statements! 😛 That is really nice!! 😊😊🥰

Unless I misunderstood, your daughter's schooling does not cost €1,000 a month contrary to what your first statement implies: her housing and groceries do. As per your explanation, it seems that education costs 200/3 = 67€ a month, which sounds very cheap to me

I don't know if it's just a belief, but most things that come to my mind when I heard "finance" in France are private schools that are quite expensive too. Have you heard about university? Thus, for a semester, I think 200€ is not so expensive and, being in Gottingen, my fees are around the double. However, I wonder if the 200 fees also include benefits like rail pass and free bus use, because this was included in the fees I paid, and I can, apparently, take the regional train and bus for free.
Still 200€ per semester is the double than fees in France (243€/year for a master, potentially refundable).

Also, i think it's fair enough to say that her daughter schooling really cost 1000€ in the end. All additionnal costs is what makes studies unaffordable for many people. On my part, it is what made studies in Paris not doable at all.

Ps : it's a semester, so it's more like 33€/month.

Thank you everybody for writing what you think about the statements in this forum!! 🙏🙏 You can of course keep writing in this forum about the previous statements! 😛 But for the weekend I have this new statement:

➡️ Unless people made a choice before they die and unless their family has a different view, organs can be used for saving other peoples lives when persons die.

This statement I got online because a lot of people's lives can be saved if more organs are donated if people die. BUTTT i think that always the family or before they die the persons can decide if they want it or not.

What do you think about the statement? Do you think it is true ✅ or false ❌

Thank you and have a good weekend!! 😊😊🙋‍♀️

Hello Yue, thanks for the topic, my opinion is true because I believe that people can choose for themselves whether they have it done or not. In Belgium everyone is registered as a donor, but you can have this registered at the town hall if you specifically do not want to have that done. I look forward to your answer

Hello Yue, thanks for the topic, my opinion is true because I believe that people can choose for themselves whether they have it done or not. In Belgium everyone is registered as a donor, but you can have this registered at the town hall if you specifically do not want to have that done. I look forward to your answer

I agree on this point. In France we have the same system. Everyone is de facto a donor, but can ask to be registered as someone who doesn’t consent. Personally, if an organ can be given to someone who need it after one’s death (and who accepted), it can only be beneficial and it could be successful.

Thank you very much @Fleurke and @Sabri_KC!! I also want to be a donor but i want that family can also decide. So for example if someone dies it may be very hurting if the family does not want that. But it maybe is also because of a religion perhaps that people may not want it, but i am not sure if some religions are against it.

But if I can choose myself other persons can have my organs. But only when i have died they can get them! 😛