🙄 What do you think of... 😊

It's not the person I made the joke with that gets offended, it's the people around who have no business listening to the conversation in the first place.

My first language is French, actually. And it's not my fault that you chose to misunderstand everything I said as an insult to women instead of as a critic to feminism, which, I'll let you know, isn't the same thing. Of course if you attack me like a rabid dog I'll be aggressive right back, and if you had only taken the time to ask me to elaborate instead of being rude, this discussion would already be over. Now I don't want to continue this pointless arguing because you try to make a point but you've already said all you had to say and now you're just making up things about me since you refuse to admit you were too quick to judge. Personally, I think making up facts about people you don't know is just going to hurt your credibility when people inevitably realize the things you said about that person is completely false.

First Google what the Belarusian language is. And how much easier it is for French speakers to learn English than for Belarusians. Second Google the facts I handed you on a silver platter. You're even capable of that. You live in your own world, a heavenly, wonderful world, but open your eyes, that example of racism is simply magnificent. And finally learn to think

Hello @Miss_Penpal @Mistelzweig @PinkiePie @Nishu and whoever you are who read this.

Sorry i read your guys debate, but let's take a historical look at the history of both sexes and why the feminist movement and equality exist. And let's put aside the woke for now, because for Woke itself there are so many agendas and it would take many paragraphs to discuss one by one.

okay, since I come from a major in social studies, and for years my major and I have observed and discussed every gender issue that exists, including the feminist movement itself. OK, let's discuss first, what kind of movement is feminism?

Feminism is an ideology created by women in which they strive to voice, support, demand and fight for their rights. What do they want? As simple as basic human rights in general. like what? rights, opportunities, justice, good treatment, and freedom.

and why do they demand or want that? because women are human beings, they also have the equal opportunity and rights to receive what is their right equally and in full without any interference, manipulation, oppression or exploitation by other parties.

Please read the history of women yourself, there are so many books, research, articles, YouTube videos, etc. that discuss the history of women and feminism. But in short, the existing conclusions show that since the beginning of time, Women are always in a vulnerable, disadvantageous position and are easily made scapegoats or manipulated. so that since ancient times, based on the history, women (of all ages), looked down upon, considered shameful, detrimental, bad, etc., where before human rights existed, femicide often occurred.

One example is the history of witches in the dark era, where people thought there were witches, but in reality, they were vocal women who tried to fight for their right. at that era, talented women are often hated, Even if you trace history, there are always women's inventions that were claimed by their own husbands.

so that from the existing injustices accumulated, the feminist movement was created. The goal is not to dominate or excel any gender, but but only demanding what has always been taken, reduced, oppressed, exploited, manipulated, controlled by misogynists since centuries.

And why is this movement still being voiced? Based on existing research, in reality, equality has not been achieved evenly, there are still many parts of this world that have not been reached by equality. What I mean is, when you feel that there is equality between men and women around you, congratulations.

However, don't belittle what others haven't experienced by saying the movement is no longer relevant or expired because of the environment around you that you consider to be equal. Social movements are collective in nature, and are not just for individuals or small groups, but for the whole community.

and as the name suggests, social is referring to a group of people. and to understand people/human, you need to wear their shoes too (empathy). you can judge or value something only based on your personal opinion. You need to look holistically, through existing multidisciplinary approaches, to understand and assess whether the movement is good or bad, useful or useless.

You can't just look at it from one side or the side you want. Because if you do, I'm sure it will end up being biased, misleading, and even endless debate. because you only want to hear and see through your own glasses.

that's all i can give. please, before start to talk about serious topic, or you want to start debate, It would be better for you to use credible reference sources such as books, scientific research/journals, YouTube videos from experts, scientific articles and sources that are not personal opinions.

Thankyou and Best Regards,

Mayuura

First Google what the Belarusian language is. And how much easier it is for French speakers to learn English than for Belarusians. Second Google the facts I handed you on a silver platter. You're even capable of that. You live in your own world, a heavenly, wonderful world, but open your eyes, that example of racism is simply magnificent. And finally learn to think

As I said, I won't be continuing this pointless arguing since you don't actually want me to explain myself OR to explain to me what your point of view is but instead only want to use me as a target for your malice. Take example on @mayuuram next time and actually explain things instead of only throwing insults around and calling everyone stupid. I also apologize to you because I've clearly offended you and that was not my intention, at least not in the post I made to answer the questions. I admit I wasn't very gentle in my answers afterwards and although I tried to stay polite I didn't really manage to do so very well, so I apologize for that as well.

Thank you @mayuuram for your post, it was nice to both sides and very constructive, unlike @PinkiePie 's posts and, I've got to admit, mine too. I should have been clearer with what I meant and I apologize to everyone on this forum for making such a scene. I could give plenty of excuses for my behaviour but it doesn't matter because I'm still partly at fault here and I doubt anyone want to hear it.

thankyou for your respond, @Miss_Penpal i understand sometimes, when we want to defend an argument, we unconsciously become stubborn and focus on the attacked ego rather than the topic or issue at hand. Because When we dare to argue, we also risk our self-respect.

That's why, when we focus more on defending our egos than on our arguments, we always end up attacking our opponents personally by insulting or belittling them. And this kind of thing doesn't just happen to teenagers and young children, but I've found it in people of all ages. They focus more on their own egos than on truly reflecting on and evaluating each other's arguments.

and in almost every forums (that endup fighting), I've always told to whoever ends up arguing that serious topics will be more educational and enriching if we each express our thoughts more diplomatically, and that arguments are best using and provide by credible sources that anyone can verify. Because serious topics will be held accountable for their theories.

It's a shame that a topic that could enrich us is, instead turned into a battleground of ego. so in the end it's just about winning. And, no matter how (we think) right we are, bitter truth, the final decision to believe or not something ultimately belongs to us. Other can only educate, throwing arguments, but whether or not we accept (the education/information), it's depends on the individual's choice to believe or not to what they read.

Because belief is ultimately voluntary, persuasion must respect autonomy rather than attempt coercion. And humans have autonomy (freedom from external control or influence; independence.) since birth that needs to be respected. and even when we see someone are wrong, then we correct them (and they endup defensive), it's not because they are dumb or racist or anything, it's because some individuals may not be ready to reconsider their current position, to reflect immediately. (In ethics, (see John Stuart Mill’s On Liberty, 1859), freedom of belief is protected unless harm is involved.))

Opening someone’s mind requires more than presenting information; in assertive yet diplomacy way & tone, and it also requires their willingness to engage with it. and when people have chosen to be closed minded, so only they themselves can open their minds, not us. That's why in the end, we gather with people who have the same vision, mission, perspective, views and life preferences as us.

it's okay, sometimes we may make mistake, but don't let the friendship get worse because of our mistakes 🫶🏻🫶🏻🫶🏻

I'll try to stay laconic because I guess I would trigger some negative responses on the debate that is still going on.

1️⃣ Marriage?

I believe marriage is the ultimate love move you can make as it represents eternal union. For me, it's symbolizing your goal with your half, so it's important, and it also means less taxes, lol

2️⃣ Online dating apps?

A nice way to make money on men's lust, women's hope and general despair. However, it seems to be one of the only way in a world where isolation and many struggles in real life seem to occur...

3️⃣ Higher prices for unhealthy food?

I admit I found it funny. We have sucha tax in France, but the effect are mixed I think. First because tax on unhealthy food, like on sugar, is degressive, so it hits poor people more. Problem; crappy food is also often cheaper.

6️⃣ 😶 I have deleted the topic that was here bc of arguments. 🙁

I still want to respond a little to it, because i feel the bait too.

I have strong lean toward biology and complementarity with core differences between males and females, strenghts and weaknesses for both, so I feel like some form of feminism (notably in the West) are too much and rather unproductive, pushing toward more conflicts between genders than anything else. We also (particularly France) have a huge problem with some social sciences that are still living 50 years in the past, with many of those scientists still denying any role of biology in human behaviour that are still taught in universities.

This lead to political moves that sometimes end up hurting everyone and getting further away from fairness for everyone, in the name of a sanctified "sameness". It also seems that feminism - still in the West - focuses more on an equality of results than of an equality of chances, a kind of equity. When medias, politicians or ideologists especially talk about it, but social scientists as well, we rarely are in the case "other things being equal" which inevitably affects tthe interpretation of the data and the conclusions.

It's more a take against social sciences and its effects in the end, more than on feminism or wokism itself.

-- This is only my fuzzy and badly articulated opinion too -- I don't want to debate about that because I don't aim to change/fight about it at the moment. It also concerns mainly Occident. I know that feminism in some places of the world are much less on nature vs culture artificial dichotomy and are more practical than that, but it's not my point here and I'm not familiar enough with them.

7️⃣ Religions

Probably needed? Have you noticed how we replace religions with other beliefs when we lose it? Sometimes, it get weirder, less structured and not always nicer

8️⃣ Prices for vet products

Vet product? veterinary? I don't have to pay them, thanks... God :v

9️⃣ Natural furs

As someone very close to conservation biology, I guess I will still go for debate but... it depends on the source of the fur. If you get fur from culling a species of a sustainable population, whether it is for regulating the said population, or getting meat... then I don't necessarily see much problem because it's sustainable.
If you have a fur farm however, it feels a little bit sad for the individuals. I have seen arctic foxes from fur farm and they didn't look too nice; ethically, I think it was much more questionable than a wild animal. Of course, if you get your fur from endangered animal and add another pressure just to get a coat, then again, I feel like there is a problem.

Now the question is about what is sustainability and can we really be included in it always, but that's really a hard and complicated ethical debate.

🔟 AI (generative AND simple)

Thanks to AI, I can skip 52455 pictures of grass moving because of the wind and get a name of the species on each detection almost correctly. Isn't that very useful? Sometimes, you don't even see the animal on the picture and you have to change the contrast, but the AI detects it!

For chatbots, it's really difficult. It looks very detrimental on an environmental point, very energy consuming and it seems that people turn their brain off with it. It also raise concerns on privacy (I tried some and it's very easy to just give your infos...)
But it's also a powerful tool if you use it to learn instead of giving you answers directly; and it can be very useful on some situations too.

I'll try to stay laconic because I guess I would trigger some negative responses on the debate that is still going on.

I believe marriage is the ultimate love move you can make as it represents eternal union. For me, it's symbolizing your goal with your half, so it's important, and it also means less taxes, lol

A nice way to make money on men's lust, women's hope and general despair. However, it seems to be one of the only way in a world where isolation and many struggles in real life seem to occur...

I admit I found it funny. We have sucha tax in France, but the effect are mixed I think. First because tax on unhealthy food, like on sugar, is degressive, so it hits poor people more. Problem; crappy food is also often cheaper.

I still want to respond a little to it, because i feel the bait too.

I have strong lean toward biology and complementarity with core differences between males and females, strenghts and weaknesses for both, so I feel like some form of feminism (notably in the West) are too much and rather unproductive, pushing toward more conflicts between genders than anything else. We also (particularly France) have a huge problem with some social sciences that are still living 50 years in the past, with many of those scientists still denying any role of biology in human behaviour that are still taught in universities.

This lead to political moves that sometimes end up hurting everyone and getting further away from fairness for everyone, in the name of a sanctified "sameness". It also seems that feminism - still in the West - focuses more on an equality of results than of an equality of chances, a kind of equity. When medias, politicians or ideologists especially talk about it, but social scientists as well, we rarely are in the case "other things being equal" which inevitably affects tthe interpretation of the data and the conclusions.

It's more a take against social sciences and its effects in the end, more than on feminism or wokism itself.

-- This is only my fuzzy and badly articulated opinion too -- I don't want to debate about that because I don't aim to change/fight about it at the moment. It also concerns mainly Occident. I know that feminism in some places of the world are much less on nature vs culture artificial dichotomy and are more practical than that, but it's not my point here and I'm not familiar enough with them.

Probably needed? Have you noticed how we replace religions with other beliefs when we lose it? Sometimes, it get weirder, less structured and not always nicer

Vet product? veterinary? I don't have to pay them, thanks... God :v

As someone very close to conservation biology, I guess I will still go for debate but... it depends on the source of the fur. If you get fur from culling a species of a sustainable population, whether it is for regulating the said population, or getting meat... then I don't necessarily see much problem because it's sustainable.
If you have a fur farm however, it feels a little bit sad for the individuals. I have seen arctic foxes from fur farm and they didn't look too nice; ethically, I think it was much more questionable than a wild animal. Of course, if you get your fur from endangered animal and add another pressure just to get a coat, then again, I feel like there is a problem.

Now the question is about what is sustainability and can we really be included in it always, but that's really a hard and complicated ethical debate.

Thanks to AI, I can skip 52455 pictures of grass moving because of the wind and get a name of the species on each detection almost correctly. Isn't that very useful? Sometimes, you don't even see the animal on the picture and you have to change the contrast, but the AI detects it!

For chatbots, it's really difficult. It looks very detrimental on an environmental point, very energy consuming and it seems that people turn their brain off with it. It also raise concerns on privacy (I tried some and it's very easy to just give your infos...)
But it's also a powerful tool if you use it to learn instead of giving you answers directly; and it can be very useful on some situations too.

Merci beaucoup for your answer @Lianshen!!! I wanted to reply abt the religion answer. I think that religion is not needed bc ppl just believe in a religion and not that they need it. But it can also make ppl better persons if they live in a way that is better if the religion says that (i mean with norms and morals). And it can also help them if they are uncertain abt things so they feel more safe and supported.

I dont mean of course if ppl use a religion wrongly and use it for violence or racism. But i think almost all religions also tell how you must be in certain ways and act as a good person. So if ppl believe in the religion or like what it is abt than i think it is positive. But im curious if you agree bc im not sure what you meant. Thank you very much if u want to tell what u think!! 😊😊🙏🙏