Effectively I forgot this high moral value that is pragmatism. Of course I understand that the governments of democratic countries are obliged to talk with guys like that. There is no choice.
The sovereign right to the Russian to choose their leader? You are joking! The case of Navalny is very indicative of Putin’s methods.
He escaped at a poisoning and owes his survival at the German health care system. That was his punishment for the crime to become too annoying for Putin and to denounce the private palace of the “new tsar”. In spite the certitude to be arrested he decided to come back in Russia where he was rapidly condemned for several years of prison in Siberia. In this place he has little chance to survive. This courageous man is the last in the big list of Putin’s opponents who often did not live for a long time. The manifestations for his liberations were severely repressed and several thousands of people were arrested.
Russia never knew democracy: This people had the tsars, the communism and now Putin. Putin could have the possibility of establishing democracy but he only replaced corrupted guys by others. He is of course too intelligent to let this power he likes so much and he has no moral limits.
Effectively I forgot this high moral value that is pragmatism. Of course I understand that the governments of democratic countries are obliged to talk with guys like that. There is no choice.There are so many fallacies, biases and gaffs in your comments that it is even hilarious to comment on that... Please, improve your critical thinking and emotional intelligence...
The sovereign right to the Russian to choose their leader? You are joking! The case of Navalny is very indicative of Putin’s methods.
He escaped at a poisoning and owes his survival at the German health care system. That was his punishment for the crime to become too annoying for Putin and to denounce the private palace of the “new tsar”. In spite the certitude to be arrested he decided to come back in Russia where he was rapidly condemned for several years of prison in Siberia. In this place he has little chance to survive. This courageous man is the last in the big list of Putin’s opponents who often did not live for a long time. The manifestations for his liberations were severely repressed and several thousands of people were arrested.
Russia never knew democracy: This people had the tsars, the communism and now Putin. Putin could have the possibility of establishing democracy but he only replaced corrupted guys by others. He is of course too intelligent to let this power he likes so much and he has no moral limits.
To be honest, Gebistka, it does not seem like you really want to have a debate but only have other people confirming your opinion about the (supposedly) great Putin, Russia, etc. Your statement that you would like to - as you have stated it - "discuss" the several things you listed, does not fit any of your answers. What you are doing is not discussing but simply claiming stuff in a very arrogant and, therefore, ignorant way.
You tell anil multiple times that he would be wrong and never give any reason why he should be. What really takes the cake is the way you are just writing "I am not going to comment on that because it is wrong". Why should it be? Can you give any reason? This is not how you have a discussion. As soess has already said: elaborate on your points or we cannot have a discussion, simple like that!
You could take A_Max_of_Drinks as an example! What he says might be right or wrong, it might be an opinion we, in the forum, share or not but, most importantly, he actually elaborates some arguments and replies to us. If you do not have any other thing to say than "you are wrong" which is certainly not an argument but just a mere statement, then it is senseless to discuss with you.
To be honest, Gebistka, it does not seem like you really want to have a debate but only have other people confirming your opinion about the (supposedly) great Putin, Russia, etc. Your statement that you would like to - as you have stated it - "discuss" the several things you listed, does not fit any of your answers. What you are doing is not discussing but simply claiming stuff in a very arrogant and, therefore, ignorant way.Why do you think so?You tell anil multiple times that he would be wrong and never give any reason why he should be. What really takes the cake is the way you are just writing "I am not going to comment on that because it is wrong". Why should it be? Can you give any reason? This is not how you have a discussion. As soess has already said: elaborate on your points or we cannot have a discussion, simple like that!
You could take A_Max_of_Drinks as an example! What he says might be right or wrong, it might be an opinion we, in the forum, share or not but, most importantly, he actually elaborates some arguments and replies to us. If you do not have any other thing to say than "you are wrong" which is certainly not an argument but just a mere statement, then it is senseless to discuss with you.
Well, I just explained what I meant... I can see improvements in the educational system, in the financial sphere, in the sphere of security, in the sphere of business for small and huge companies as a common Russian citizen...
I perfectly understand that you, guys, can have your truth as well.
But I dislike Mr. Navalny, I cannot imagine him as a strong leader... There were strong leaders in the past, but they were certainly not like Mr. Navalny...
I like Mr. Gorbachev's politics and policies , he released Sakharov, he did a lot for creating tolerant relationships among Russian citizens, and these human rights values are amazing, they are really decent... But he was too generous, too kind-hearted and soft-natured...
However, I really dislike that it is almost impossible to do any business abroad right now -- no company, such as PayPal, Payoneer, Skrill, Western Union, Stripe, -- no company at all wants to let small Russian companies use merchant acquiring... There are so many weird things which are connected with ratification, tax systems and GDPR policies... And I know that the problem is not always at our side, it is not related to the Russian Federation or Mr. Putin anyhow... I asked my British friend and he told me that abroad people have always been thinking about Russians and Slavonic peoples as about some kind of "Untermensh". He told me that all Western guys imagine all Russian women as prostitutes and all Russian men as hackers, and when the Soviet Union ceased to exist, the UK started to hunt for Russian intellectuals and others just to get them and force them to work for Britain...
You see, Mr. Putin doesn't have any relation to the idea, why and how Westerners imagine, think and perceive Russians and the Russian Federation...
I have noticed quite an interesting thing: Russians, who live in Russia have lots of intellectual hobbies, read lots of classic literature, scientific journals, listen to instrumental types of music and so on, but then they decide to get as much money as possible, move to Germany and other countries, learn 2-3 new languages and what can I see the next? They do not have any intellectual hobbies anymore, they are not interested in Quantum Medicine, Artificial Intelligence, Scientific Research, they can barely speak Russian and foreign languages and their only interests become to earn as much money as possible and laugh at stupid and sick jokes... It looks like all of their brains were left over here, as soon as they left Russia...
To be honest, Gebistka, it does not seem like you really want to have a debate but only have other people confirming your opinion about the (supposedly) great Putin, Russia, etc. Your statement that you would like to - as you have stated it - "discuss" the several things you listed, does not fit any of your answers. What you are doing is not discussing but simply claiming stuff in a very arrogant and, therefore, ignorant way.Why do you think so?You tell anil multiple times that he would be wrong and never give any reason why he should be. What really takes the cake is the way you are just writing "I am not going to comment on that because it is wrong". Why should it be? Can you give any reason? This is not how you have a discussion. As soess has already said: elaborate on your points or we cannot have a discussion, simple like that!
You could take A_Max_of_Drinks as an example! What he says might be right or wrong, it might be an opinion we, in the forum, share or not but, most importantly, he actually elaborates some arguments and replies to us. If you do not have any other thing to say than "you are wrong" which is certainly not an argument but just a mere statement, then it is senseless to discuss with you.
Just to make sure we are on the same page: anil wrote a couple of days ago:
Perhaps relations between Russia and other countries and particularly democratic countries will be easier when Vladimir Putin will leave the power. But he will be at the head of your country for surely long time. Don't you think so?
And your response has been:
Well, I am not going to comment on it... I detest foreign democracy, freedoms, liberties and quite a weird, really strange attitude to moral foundations, working ethics, decency, values... Especially a burning russophobia, islamophobia, slavophobia... Dishonest business practices... Corporate social responsibility only in order to wear a mask of a kind, supportive, sympathetic and empathetic company, which is caring about their clients and workers... Biased, false understanding of the idea of "being polite and honest"... And so on...
Do you want to deny the fact that, apparently, you are purposely not answering to anil?!
Second example of one of your comments a couple of days ago:
There are so many fallacies, biases and gaffs in your comments that it is even hilarious to comment on that... Please, improve your critical thinking and emotional intelligence...
Well, I can only quote myself once again:To be honest, Gebistka, it does not seem like you really want to have a debate but only have other people confirming your opinion about the (supposedly) great Putin, Russia, etc. Your statement that you would like to - as you have stated it - "discuss" the several things you listed, does not fit any of your answers. What you are doing is not discussing but simply claiming stuff in a very arrogant and, therefore, ignorant way.Why do you think so?You tell anil multiple times that he would be wrong and never give any reason why he should be. What really takes the cake is the way you are just writing "I am not going to comment on that because it is wrong". Why should it be? Can you give any reason? This is not how you have a discussion. As soess has already said: elaborate on your points or we cannot have a discussion, simple like that!
You could take A_Max_of_Drinks as an example! What he says might be right or wrong, it might be an opinion we, in the forum, share or not but, most importantly, he actually elaborates some arguments and replies to us. If you do not have any other thing to say than "you are wrong" which is certainly not an argument but just a mere statement, then it is senseless to discuss with you.Just to make sure we are on the same page: anil wrote a couple of days ago:
Perhaps relations between Russia and other countries and particularly democratic countries will be easier when Vladimir Putin will leave the power. But he will be at the head of your country for surely long time. Don't you think so?And your response has been:
Well, I am not going to comment on it... I detest foreign democracy, freedoms, liberties and quite a weird, really strange attitude to moral foundations, working ethics, decency, values... Especially a burning russophobia, islamophobia, slavophobia... Dishonest business practices... Corporate social responsibility only in order to wear a mask of a kind, supportive, sympathetic and empathetic company, which is caring about their clients and workers... Biased, false understanding of the idea of "being polite and honest"... And so on...Do you want to deny the fact that, apparently, you are purposely not answering to anil?!
Second example of one of your comments a couple of days ago:
There are so many fallacies, biases and gaffs in your comments that it is even hilarious to comment on that... Please, improve your critical thinking and emotional intelligence...
Well, I just explained what I meant... I can see improvements in the educational system, in the financial sphere, in the sphere of security, in the sphere of business for small and huge companies as a common Russian citizen...
I perfectly understand that you, guys, can have your truth as well.
But I dislike Mr. Navalny, I cannot imagine him as a strong leader... There were strong leaders in the past, but they were certainly not like Mr. Navalny...
I like Mr. Gorbachev's politics and policies , he released Sakharov, he did a lot for creating tolerant relationships among Russian citizens, and these human rights values are amazing, they are really decent... But he was too generous, too kind-hearted and soft-natured...
However, I really dislike that it is almost impossible to do any business abroad right now -- no company, such as PayPal, Payoneer, Skrill, Western Union, Stripe, -- no company at all wants to let small Russian companies use merchant acquiring... There are so many weird things which are connected with ratification, tax systems and GDPR policies... And I know that the problem is not always at our side, it is not related to the Russian Federation or Mr. Putin anyhow... I asked my British friend and he told me that abroad people have always been thinking about Russians and Slavonic peoples as about some kind of "Untermensh". He told me that all Western guys imagine all Russian women as prostitutes and all Russian men as hackers, and when the Soviet Union ceased to exist, the UK started to hunt for Russian intellectuals and others just to get them and force them to work for Britain...
You see, Mr. Putin doesn't have any relation to the idea, why and how Westerners imagine, think and perceive Russians and the Russian Federation...
I have noticed quite an interesting thing: Russians, who live in Russia have lots of intellectual hobbies, read lots of classic literature, scientific journals, listen to instrumental types of music and so on, but then they decide to get as much money as possible, move to Germany and other countries, learn 2-3 new languages and what can I see the next? They do not have any intellectual hobbies anymore, they are not interested in Quantum Medicine, Artificial Intelligence, Scientific Research, they can barely speak Russian and foreign languages and their only interests become to earn as much money as possible and laugh at stupid and sick jokes... It looks like all of their brains were left over here, as soon as they left Russia...
I asked my British friend and he told me that abroad people have always been thinking about Russians and Slavonic peoples as about some kind of "Untermensh". He told me that all Western guys imagine all Russian women as prostitutes and all Russian men as hackers, ...
I find that statement really odd. You are criticizing "Russophobia" and at the same time you say that all Western people imagine all Russian people to be prostitutes and hackers. I hope I dont have to tell you that is simply wrong, because it is. I dont know whether your British friend has conducted a study about Russophobia but if so he probably did that in the UK and not Europe-wide. I can also assure you that this study would most definetly not have a result of all Western people having prejudices against Russians.
I dont care about Russian people in Russia at all (Why would I?) but I can tell you from experience that some Russians arent comepletely innocent in the negative picture some people have of them. I know a few who act superior because they think it is something really great to be Russian and they are somehow better than non-Russians. Some people obviously get a negative picture of Russians when these people walk around. But thats a general problem in our society, that every ethinicity has to deal with.
I have noticed quite an interesting thing: Russians, who live in Russia have lots of intellectual hobbies, read lots of classic literature, scientific journals, listen to instrumental types of music and so on, but then they decide to get as much money as possible, move to Germany and other countries, learn 2-3 new languages and what can I see the next? They do not have any intellectual hobbies anymore, they are not interested in Quantum Medicine, Artificial Intelligence, Scientific Research, they can barely speak Russian and foreign languages and their only interests become to earn as much money as possible and laugh at stupid and sick jokes... It looks like all of their brains were left over here, as soon as they left Russia...
I dont even know what to say. That ridiculous.
First of all: Not all Russians in Russia have intelletcual hobbies and are just perfect because people everywhere are individuals. Just because you are in Russia it doesnt mean you also have to be interested in classic literature. That wasnt what you said, but still.
Second thing: As people age, their interests change. That means, that someone who lived 5 years in Germany and is 5 years older than he was in Russia, might have changed interests because of being 5 years older. Maybe that person found a new thing to do he likes better. That has nothing to do with living in Russia or Germany. The possibilities change because maybe people dont play Volleyball in Russia (No, I do not say that people dont play Volleyball in Russia. This is an example.) but they do in Germany. Or maybe that person simply wants to relax and watch a movie after coming home from work instead of reading classic literature.
And by the way, I dont think you get to decide which jokes are funny and which are sick and stupid. Because that has something to do with humor, and that can change too.
Also: Why would they speak Russian? The possibility to do so is pretty much not there in a country that isnt Russia, and what you dont practice you get worse at. When you decide to move to another country it is a consequence you have to face, that you might get worse at your mother tongue. And I also dont see why that would be something bad. It doesnt really have negative consequences to forget parts of a language when you dont ever need it.
And last but not least: Who are you to decide that scientific journals and classic literature and music are the best intellectual hobbies you could have? You have to be interested in science and classical things to make that your hobby. And Quantum Medicine and AI are oddly specific too. So many people in general might not be interested in these things, and if they once were that can change, like I said before. There are many other hobbies you can have that might fit your interests better. For example learning a language. Dont you think that learning a language is an intellectual hobby? You make it sound as if learning languages would be a bad thing. It is not.
Overall I really dislike this part of your statement. For the reasons i just listed, and for the reason that you picked Germany.
To me it sounds as if you would say that Germans are stupid and pull Russians down that road too, and that offends me for obvious reasons. It is a perfect example for the proud and superior Russians I mentioned before, so you should think about how you behave towards others before you blame them for having prejudices.
From what I can tell, you seem to have as many negative prejudices against Western people as they might have against Russians. So you complaining about Russophobia doesnt make a lot of sense to me.
Have a nice day. 🙂
I find that statement really odd. You are criticizing "Russophobia" and at the same time you say that all Western people imagine all Russian people to be prostitutes and hackers. I hope I dont have to tell you that is simply wrong, because it is. I dont know whether your British friend has conducted a study about Russophobia but if so he probably did that in the UK and not Europe-wide. I can also assure you that this study would most definetly not have a result of all Western people having prejudices against Russians.I do love the German language but I would rather live in Austria. 😉 Austrian guys are so cool.
This friend of mine from the UK has never done any research on phobias. He has a Bachelor's degree in Computer Science.
I really like British people, my Master's thesis is dedicated to Margaret Thatcher as a person. I adore Margaret Thatcher.
As Chaos has already extensively replied to some of your claims and, in my opinion, rightly identified that they are somewhat inconsistent and contradictory, I would like to add a bit on the other claims.
You mention that you see great economic progress in Russia and it seems that you argue this has been a direct result of Putin's politics. However, how does it come that the statistics on economic indicators of Russia tell a somewhat different picture? According to the statistics of the World Bank and the World Inequality Database by Piketty, Saez and Zucman, Russia's economy has not experienced the growth a lot of Western (European) countries have experienced. In fact, after Russia has made up for the times of a planned economy in the Soviet Union - and the foundations for this must definitely attributed to the people before Putin, not Putin himself -, the economy has stagnated compared to other countries. Even more so since Putin is president again. The GDP per capita has even decreased in some of the recent years. This has lead to households facing the problem that their disposable income decreased also. If you look at national income instead of GDP, the situation looks even worse. To me these numbers look contrary to what you are saying. If you consider that Russia is very blessed with natural resources, one must wonder why they did not manage to make more out of it in the last decade.
The financial sphere, you mentioned, does not change the picture substantially. Wealth inequality is rising (as in all other countries as well). To my knowledge, financial institutions are not excessively more stable than in other countries. So, I cannot understand on which base you are claiming all this. As you have also said it, most likely this is just YOUR view which does not match reality.
Why do some companies not invest nor offer their services in Russia? Of course, one possible explanation could be that - most likely American - companies fear to get into conflict with public administration and, hence, they back out of it. Even if this would be the case, then this has nothing to do with an open Slavophobia of these companies but more with a question why does public administration might react adversely to their behaviour. However, I think they just do not want to invest or offer their services because they fear economic uncertainty due to both the difficult foreign relationships with Russia which can always lead to sanctions from either side and the fact that parts of Russia's economy under Putin have become more prone to nepotism. Both of these problems are very inconvenient for companies like Paypal, etc. because they do not allow for stabe planning.
That you actually use the last point to then claim Western Europeans would think like the Nazis did and see all Russians as "Untermenschen" leaves me speechless. Besides the things Chaos has already explained, I have the feeling you just claim this such that all our arguments are delegitimized because we supposedly still think that we are some superior race and so on. This is ridiculous, completely ridiculous! I suggest you to read some English version of a German newspaper about the recent commemoration days...
The only you point you claim that probably has some truth is that (Western) Europeans and Germans currently have a negative image of (Putin's) Russia. But let me give you some reasons for that where this stems from. First, Russian foreign politics in the recent years has consisted of engaging into a lot of conflicts without any cooperation with other nations. I am talking about Syria and Libya in particular. Second, Putin has lead Russia to aggressively take the Krim and he tried/tries to destabilize Ukrainia by supporting the separatists with weapons and soldiers. Lastly, Putin supresses the freedom of spreech, puts other politicians in jail with pretended argument and enrichens himself and his family with nepotism. From this enumeration, however, you might have noticed that it is mostly about Putin. The negative image is more about Putin's Russia than Russia itself.
Oh, and if you ask yourself why particularly Eastern Europeans like Polish, Ukranians and so on currently have a negative view on Russia, you might want to take a look at Wikipedia and read up on the things happening in the 1930s like the invasion of Estonia, Lithuania and so on and compare that with the view Russian politics propagate on these issues today.
And last but not least: Who are you to decide that scientific journals and classic literature and music are the best intellectual hobbies you could have? You have to be interested in science and classical things to make that your hobby. And Quantum Medicine and AI are oddly specific too. So many people in general might not be interested in these things, and if they once were that can change, like I said before. There are many other hobbies you can have that might fit your interests better. For example learning a language. Dont you think that learning a language is an intellectual hobby? You make it sound as if learning languages would be a bad thing. It is not.The thing is that they cannot speak any foreign language properly and they cannot speak their mother tongue.Overall I really dislike this part of your statement. For the reasons i just listed, and for the reason that you picked Germany.
To me it sounds as if you would say that Germans are stupid and pull Russians down that road too, and that offends me for obvious reasons. It is a perfect example for the proud and superior Russians I mentioned before, so you should think about how you behave towards others before you blame them for having prejudices.
From what I can tell, you seem to have as many negative prejudices against Western people as they might have against Russians. So you complaining about Russophobia doesnt make a lot of sense to me.
As for hobbies... Well, there is a farm of emigrants-slaves in Germany which has been grown by Merkel... Everybody knows it. That's why they do not have any adequate hobbies and cannot speak any language properly... They can do only tough jobs... 😉
As for hobbies... Well, there is a farm of emigrants-slaves in Germany which has been grown by Merkel... Everybody knows it. That's why they do not have any adequate hobbies and cannot speak any language properly... They can do only tough jobs... 😉
A farm of emigrant slaves. Okay. Let's go with that. But just to be clear: I haven't heard of that yet, so I would like you to give me some sources and general information about it.
So what you are telling me is, that your Russian friends go to Germany willingly, to become slaves? Okay. Well then it's not your problem, is it? Let them be slaves if they want to, it's their life.
And if they didn't want to be slaves the question would be why you and noone else told them about the emigrant slave farm and stopped them from going to Germany. That's really irresponsible, don't you think?
And no, until you've given me some sources about that farm you cannot argue that Germany is the bad guy here.
And also no, I will not do research on my own. Actually, I did search for it for a few seconds, but I didn't find anything. Even though it would be pretty big. So since you are the one who brought that up, you are the one to prove it.
I'm also wondering why you first only said that Germany made people stupid. Because making people stupid and making slaves work for yourself... Well I don't know how to tell you, but the last point is a little worse and more important.
Same with the languages. When you say they learn languages, people assume that they learn languages. People do not assume that they learn languages, but actually don't learn them and cannot talk in any language in the end.
And again, this time because of the slave farm: You think we are the bad guys with "our" Russophobia? You just said Germany would keep slaves without giving anything to prove that.
And again, this time because of the slave farm: You think we are the bad guys with "our" Russophobia? You just said Germany would keep slaves without giving anything to prove that.Well, I can give the skype id of my friend from Croatia, he will tell you the same. And the skype id of my British friend. 😉
A farm of emigrant slaves. Okay. Let's go with that.
1) Have you heard about glass ceiling? Have a look: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass_ceiling
2) Do you know the difference between learning a language and achieving C2 level? Have a look: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_Language_Testers_in_Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_European_Framework_of_Reference_for_Languages
3) Do you know what means /at home among strangers/ or /the cherished outcast/ or /Manchurian candidate/?
4) Do you know what means /don't change horses in midstream/?
5) Just relax and have a look https://youtu.be/t-wFKNy0MZQ and https://youtu.be/8HZ4DnVfWYQ
Well, I can give the skype id of my friend from Croatia, he will tell you the same. And the skype id of my British friend. 😉Your Croatic and British friends are no reliable source. Id like to see any kind of reliable source on this. Where did your friends get that information? From friends too? Id like to see the root of it. If there is none, you should overthink why you believe Mrs. Merkel keeps slaves. There are many arguments people have against her but I have never heard of slaves.
1) Have you heard about glass ceiling? Have a look: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass_ceilingI had not heard of this term before but now that I have I do not see any connection to our conversation. There is a different between being a slave and being affected by the "glass ceiling". So what are you trying to say by this?
2) Do you know the difference between learning a language and achieving C2 level? Have a look: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_Language_Testers_in_Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_European_Framework_of_Reference_for_LanguagesI think you understand I tried to say that you expressed your point really poorly in this case, so I am not going to keep this conversation going.
3) Do you know what means /at home among strangers/ or /the cherished outcast/ or /Manchurian candidate/?The first and last ones appear to be movies, and I understand the first and the second used as phrases. What I dont understand is what they have to do with our conversation.
4) Do you know what means /don't change horses in midstream/?I do now, and again, I dont see a connection to our conversation. Did I change my horse in midstream, in your opinion? When did I do that? And if I didnt do it, who did it? What does it have to do with anything?
5) Just relax and have a look https://youtu.be/t-wFKNy0MZQ and https://youtu.be/8HZ4DnVfWYQSo... that is a joke. And... why did you want me to see it? What does it have to do with anything?
To summarize it again: I dont see what these things have to do with anything, and I would still like to get some information about the slave farm, including sources.
I had not heard of this term before but now that I have I do not see any connection to our conversation. There is a different between being a slave and being affected by the "glass ceiling". So what are you trying to say by this?Glass ceiling is the thing when some people are not allowed to do some job just because of some formal reasons... For instance, Muslims or Russians in Germany cannot become university professors, despite they have Ph.D. degrees and perfectly know German, English and Russian and so on. It is typical for many countries where emigrants live... Emigrants will never be able to become librarians, university professors, school directors and so on... Despite that they have all the skills and knowledge... Hard skills, soft skills, critical thinking, emotional intelligence... They are just not natives... And it is sad. 🙁
Glass ceiling is the thing when some people are not allowed to do some job just because of some formal reasons... For instance, Muslims or Russians in Germany cannot become university professors, despite they have Ph.D. degrees and perfectly know German, English and Russian and so on. It is typical for many countries where emigrants live... Emigrants will never be able to become librarians, university professors, school directors and so on... Despite that they have all the skills and knowledge... Hard skills, soft skills, critical thinking, emotional intelligence... They are just not natives... And it is sad. 🙁As I told you, I know what it means. But you were talking about a slave farm. Slavery is something else than being affected by the glass ceiling. So the glass ceiling has nothing to do with anything we were talking about. Where are you trying to go with this?
And what have all your other things, except 2, to do with anything?