🤷‍♀️🧙‍♂️ True or false? 🙄❓ Anything and everything

Hello everybody!

Tomorrow is in Europe the Equal Pay Day. I read that and i looked online and i found this: https://commission.europa.eu/strategy-and-policy/policies/justice-and-fundamental-rights/gender-equality/equal-pay/equal-pay-day_en But there is also an International Equal Pay Day and that is on 18 September and i also found online this website about that day: https://www.un.org/en/observances/equal-pay-day

So I made a statement about it:

➡️ There is still work that we need to make men and women equal.

What do you think about the statement? Do you think it is true ✅ or false ❌

For me I think it is important that if men and women do the same work than I think that they should deserve the same for that. But I dont think it is fair if for example a woman gets a job but a man is better but they only give the job to make it equal, because i dont think that is really equal.

And also there are other things that you can think about if things are equal or not. And sometimes that is not the case i think. For example in some countries women cant vote or are not free to do the same things as men can do. But there are also differences because of different roles sometimes like for example if you are a couple and a woman cooks and a man does other things for the couple. That is also not equal but that does not matter because sometimes you have different roles and if everybody is ok with it and everything is nice it does not matter. For example in my family the role of my dad is different than my mom and me but that is normal and ok. And everybody of us care for each other. 🙂

I am curious what you think about the statement!! Thank you for the comments!! 🙏🙏🥰🥰

➡️ There is still work that we need to make men and women equal.

This is a fundamental question that is largely misunderstood, embodied by 2 mutually exclusive concepts:
- equality of opportunity (eg. state funded education so kids from rich families don't have a substantial advantage over poorer ones, or no gender discrimination for employment so men/women have the ability to apply for any job)
- equality of outcome (eg. ensuring all jobs are occupied by 50-50 men/women, or everyone occupying the same job position should be paid the same regardless of their individual performance)

We should most definitely strive for equality of opportunity, where the most successful and hard working earn their place up the ladder, which - in addition to being morally right - can drive the whole society upwards along their way.

However, equality of outcome (which has been on the rise in the last few years, mostly under the acronym "DEI") is inherently unfair and backwards: people are judged based on their gender and/or race and are given an advantage over more deserving people who some left-leaning elites deem "over-represented". This discourages initiatives and slowly stifles the economy, eventually bringing everyone down.

Regarding the pay gap between men and women, it's important to understand that men are not paid more "just because they're men": the Market is gender/race blind, it's an abstract entity constantly striving for better cost-effectiveness. Men are overall paid more because: they work jobs that happen to pay more, generally work longer hours, and tend to negotiate their salaries more aggressively.

Hi Yue 🙂

that's an impressive topic. Thank's for that.

Without reading the links... in my opinion it's difficult to define what does "equal" mean.
Yes it is a fact that in average women earn less then men for the same work. Besides that we don't know is there the same qualification and the same framework conditions (ex: full time/part time). In addition we don't know the private target. For example one person get a lower challenged job to fulfill the private tasks in the family.

In my private situation, my wife earns near 20% more then me. Why? Cause of her education, workload and beeing excelent in her job. It's okay for me, so I handle more of our private tasks and we are fine with our private distribution.

However there are two points I want to mark out, what I think it is important for that both genders have the same opportunities:

1. Same education: Unfortunately, there are still many countries where education is unequal between the sexes. The gender role model is that women stay at home and therefore do not need a good education. In my opinion, both must receive the same education to have the same opportunities.

2. Quotas in senior (management) positions: The social picture that we still have in Europe is from the 19th century. Women have to stay home, growing up children, are the weaker gender etc. So in my opinion we need obligatory quotas for women in visible position to change the actual social picture we have. Of course it would become problematic if there is not the same qualification between men and women for the same position, but taking point 1 into account, the difference should be equalized 🙂

1. Same education: Unfortunately, there are still many countries where education is unequal between the sexes. The gender role model is that women stay at home and therefore do not need a good education. In my opinion, both must receive the same education to have the same opportunities.

I agree with the general vibe of your statement, but I would change "must receive" with "should be able to receive": I don't think forcing education is good and not everyone is suited for higher studies. Besides, women are nowadays 1/3 more likely to pursue higher education than men so the tendency is actually the other way around.

2. Quotas in senior (management) positions: The social picture that we still have in Europe is from the 19th century. Women have to stay home, growing up children, are the weaker gender etc. So in my opinion we need obligatory quotas for women in visible position to change the actual social picture we have. Of course it would become problematic if there is not the same qualification between men and women for the same position, but taking point 1 into account, the difference should be equalized 🙂

I strongly disagree with that, and previously explained why it is a nefarious idea: you literally treat people based on their gender or race, which is the exact same premise as the countless segregations we have seen in the past. Besides, who said that there "needs" more women occupying certain jobs to begin with? I haven't seen many feminists being outraged that virtually all road builders, military troops, or carpenters are men. The double standard of this propaganda drives me nuts.

Instead of trying to fix something that isn't broken, we should try to take a step back and understand why women are less present in managerial positions: these jobs are very demanding, very tough, and demand a very strong/disagreeable temper. These are typically masculine traits, which is why very few women are compatible (most men aren't either, by the way). Top positions require you to sacrifice your personal life for your career, which typically only men are crazy enough to be willing to do just for the pursuit of success. Qualification plays a role, but personality/drive/traits/charisma are equally if not more important.

Thank you very much @Etienne and @steve-san!! I have to read again a couple of times what you wrote both because I dont understand everything completely but the most i do understand. 🙂 But some words I have to look up!! 🤪🤪

Sometimes when we have discussions in school in our society class or here in this forum about statements i posted then I read comments and I think ok that is very good and that is right. And then I read another comment and I think ok that also makes sense and is right. And then it goes from left to right like tennis match and I am like 😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫 and than it is very difficult to know immediately my own opinion so i want to think about it more too.

But in school our teacher sometimes wants immediately your opinion and that he looks strange if you change your opinion if you hear others and I think that is not fair. 🙁

And I have a question for @Etienne about leaders: do you mean that they are like men so super strong and sometimes have strong opinions and are always tough? Sometimes I think that if we have also women leaders and they dont act like men (like super strong and tough) if maybe sometimes that can be better. Because if all leaders are strong and tough it can be like Ukraine war between leaders and that they dont agree. But sometimes softer is better if leaders are like that and most of the time women are softer. What do you think? And you also @steve-san?

Im agreed with the to men above me 😊their opinion is good to read

Hello everybody!

Tomorrow is in Europe the Equal Pay Day. I read that and i looked online and i found this: https://commission.europa.eu/strategy-and-policy/policies/justice-and-fundamental-rights/gender-equality/equal-pay/equal-pay-day_en But there is also an International Equal Pay Day and that is on 18 September and i also found online this website about that day: https://www.un.org/en/observances/equal-pay-day

So I made a statement about it:

➡️ There is still work that we need to make men and women equal.

What do you think about the statement? Do you think it is true ✅ or false ❌

For me I think it is important that if men and women do the same work than I think that they should deserve the same for that. But I dont think it is fair if for example a woman gets a job but a man is better but they only give the job to make it equal, because i dont think that is really equal.

And also there are other things that you can think about if things are equal or not. And sometimes that is not the case i think. For example in some countries women cant vote or are not free to do the same things as men can do. But there are also differences because of different roles sometimes like for example if you are a couple and a woman cooks and a man does other things for the couple. That is also not equal but that does not matter because sometimes you have different roles and if everybody is ok with it and everything is nice it does not matter. For example in my family the role of my dad is different than my mom and me but that is normal and ok. And everybody of us care for each other. 🙂

I am curious what you think about the statement!! Thank you for the comments!! 🙏🙏🥰🥰

Of course it is a true statement. In modern societies, achieving gender equality is part of human rights and a basis for sustainable development. Societies that achieve gender balance are more prosperous and stable. When men and women have the same opportunities in education and work, creativity and productivity increase, and this enhances social cohesion. Equality between men and women is not just a human rights demand, but rather something essential for an advanced and just society, where individuals of both genders can contribute to building a bright future, freely. And mutual respect.

And I have a question for @Etienne about leaders: do you mean that they are like men so super strong and sometimes have strong opinions and are always tough? Sometimes I think that if we have also women leaders and they dont act like men (like super strong and tough) if maybe sometimes that can be better. Because if all leaders are strong and tough it can be like Ukraine war between leaders and that they dont agree. But sometimes softer is better if leaders are like that and most of the time women are softer. What do you think?

Being strong doesn't mean you're mean, or unfair, or oppose people out of principle. It means that you are less susceptible to being intimidated, or you are able to take the necessary risks to ultimately reach success. You need people with soft personality traits in society, but not in positions that require authority. It doesn't mean no woman can do these jobs, it means they at the very least need to have masculine traits - like modern warriors, in a way.

Of course it is a true statement. In modern societies, achieving gender equality is part of human rights and a basis for sustainable development. Societies that achieve gender balance are more prosperous and stable. When men and women have the same opportunities in education and work, creativity and productivity increase, and this enhances social cohesion. Equality between men and women is not just a human rights demand, but rather something essential for an advanced and just society, where individuals of both genders can contribute to building a bright future, freely. And mutual respect.

Gender balance has nothing to do with prosperity and stability. In Nordic countries (I think Sweden is the prime example), women are truly free to pick their career and it actually ended up widening the gender gap (this is referred to as "gender equality paradox", although it is only a paradox to ideologists).

It seems you are confusing equality of opportunity ("equality") and equality of outcome ("equity") => yes to providing the same chances to everyone at the start of the game, no to forcing ratios/quotas in any part of a structured society down the road. The latter being a totalitarian mindset seeking to deny the free will of individuals. Fight on the good side! 😃

Thank you very much @Fleurke and @Sarahsalah27!! And I agree about what you say @Sarahsalah27 but i think @Etienne and @steve-san also said interesting things and that the statement means a lot of different things too. It is a difficult subject but i agree with @Etienne that everybody should have same opportunity but if a woman gets for example a job but a man is better or the other way around that is also unfair. But I think @steve-san is right if he says that if everybody has equal good education it may be different because you get better chances also as a woman later. But again @Etienne is right if sometimes it is not only education but also other important things which can mean if a man or a woman gets a job. And I think @Sarahsalah27 is right about the mutual respect and importance of the equality.

And I also think that it is different in for example poor countries on the one hand and richer countries on the other hand for some of the aspects. For example there is not always education equality and the same opportunities. That is the most in poorer countries. So in each country the situation can be very different. 🙂

I hope that is a good summary!! 😛 😛

Being strong doesn't mean you're mean, or unfair, or oppose people out of principle. It means that you are less susceptible to being intimidated, or you are able to take the necessary risks to ultimately reach success. You need people with soft personality traits in society, but not in positions that require authority. It doesn't mean no woman can do these jobs, it means they at the very least need to have masculine traits - like modern warriors, in a way.

Thank you very much for your comment @Etienne!! Merci beaucoup!! 🙏🙏 You know a lot about it and every time you write things in this forum I always need some time to think about everything you say!

I dont think that i can be a leader like how you describe it and i also dont want to be a leader really in real life. That would not make me feel comfortable because it is also that you are responsible for a LOTTT and i prefer more to be an assistant or a for example a medicine researcher and there is someone else who leads everything but you can still help a lot.

In my family my dad is more what you describe and also in our family there is not a doubt that he is the boss in our house. But that is ok because he means it very well and i think he is more natural in that than my mom or me. But it is funny because he does not talk the most at all in our house. I think he talks the least but if he talks we listen that is normal. But if he speaks on the phone you get deaf because he speaks super LOUDDD always. 😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫

I wanted to thank everybody A LOTTT because this is for me a special forum. That is because we talk a lot about things that are sometimes difficult but it makes the forum nicer i hope. Sometimes we have funny or silly forums or nice games but now also serious forums like this and from PPG University.

And it is nice that we have comments from everybody and sometimes people can really guide with the thoughts and help explain things or that they give their views. It is really nice and I like it a lot.

Tomorrow I will put a new statement in this forum but now I wanted to just thank everybody who writes often in this forum or sometimes or just reads it. That is all very nice of you and i am thankful for that!!! 🥰🥰🥰❤️❤️

Hello everybody! 🙋‍♀️

Sorry that i did not write some time in this forum, but i was very busy with so much homework i was very tired the last days. 😵‍💫😵‍💫🥱🥱 BUTTT i have two new statements and i hope that we can maybe discuss them.

1️⃣ If there would be more women leaders in the world in politics, there would be less wars.

2️⃣ If there have been elections everybody has to respect the result of the elections.

For the first statement: i dont know yet if i agree with it or not. Maybe there would be less wars like for example if there was no Putin but a female they would maybe not have invaded Ukraine. And the same with the war between Hamas and Israel that there would not be attacks and afterwards a war. But I am not certain if it would really be different or maybe not.

For the second statement: i think people have to respect results even if you dont like them. In The Netherlands there were protests after the elections because people did not like the parties that won. I would vote for the nature party Groen Links, but they did not win. But still i think you have to respect the result and think about how to make the best of it. That is also now in America. Even if you dont like Trump, this is the result and it is more important to think how it can work in the best way for everybody.

I am curious what others think about the statements. Do you believe they are true ✅ or false ❌? Thank you very much for posting what you think!! 🙏🙏

Hello everybody! 🙋‍♀️

Sorry that i did not write some time in this forum, but i was very busy with so much homework i was very tired the last days. 😵‍💫😵‍💫🥱🥱 BUTTT i have two new statements and i hope that we can maybe discuss them.

1️⃣ If there would be more women leaders in the world in politics, there would be less wars.

2️⃣ If there have been elections everybody has to respect the result of the elections.

For the first statement: i dont know yet if i agree with it or not. Maybe there would be less wars like for example if there was no Putin but a female they would maybe not have invaded Ukraine. And the same with the war between Hamas and Israel that there would not be attacks and afterwards a war. But I am not certain if it would really be different or maybe not.

For the second statement: i think people have to respect results even if you dont like them. In The Netherlands there were protests after the elections because people did not like the parties that won. I would vote for the nature party Groen Links, but they did not win. But still i think you have to respect the result and think about how to make the best of it. That is also now in America. Even if you dont like Trump, this is the result and it is more important to think how it can work in the best way for everybody.

I am curious what others think about the statements. Do you believe they are true ✅ or false ❌? Thank you very much for posting what you think!! 🙏🙏

Regarding the first statement:

I don't think that having more women necessarily means the end of wars.

Wars arise due to factors such as greed and political conflicts, and these are not linked to a specific gender.

The most important thing is to change the values ​​and way of thinking in societies.

second statement :

Yes, we must respect the election results even if we do not like them, because that reflects our respect for the principle of democracy and the choice of the majority.

But at the same time, we have the right to express our opinion and criticize policies peacefully and legally if we believe that they do not serve the interests of the people.

Thank you very much for your comment @Sarahsalah27!! 🙏🙏 I agree with everything you said about the second statement! 🙂

But with the first statement i think most of the times you are right but sometimes a war is even more stupid than other wars like for example with Russia invading Ukraine. So I think that maybe if it was not Putin but a different leader like maybe a woman it would not have happened. But i am not sure about it. 🙄🙄