What do you think about taiwan rn Politics and governments

Do not take seriously some idiots who live in western countries and praise the authoritarian dictatorships of the east. taiwan people want to live freely, i can't blame taiwanese people for not wanting to be subordinate to god xi

I see we have some good old manicheist answer here.
"muuh, not my friend? then we are enemies!"

Both the PRC and the ROC claim all of mainland China as well as the island of Taiwan. So what makes the PRC the bad guy here? Making fish of one and flesh of another only. Yet another time, I tell, this is not a big fish wants to eat small fish story at all. It is rather some "bird" wants to eat both at once story.

You seem very misinformed or intoxicated by Chinese propaganda.

You seem very misinformed or intoxicated by US propaganda.

Do I need to go further to see how this kind of argument is irrelevant and displaced? Well, let's go then:

For me the countries of the European Union are a good example of democracies even if it’s not paradise, if we classify the countries of the planet according to objective criteria like renewal of the elites, integrity of the leaders, freedom of the press or independence of justice, multiparty system, respect of human rights;

EU countries, good example of democracies when most of policies are not decided by sovereign state but by the EU, France being a good example of this with retirement reform since it ahs been decided on a EU level and is pushed in this direction in order to get backk some of the money given to EU.

Concerning your criterias :
- Renewal of the elites isn't a sign of democracy, but of instability. You talked about the Roman. In Roman Empire,t he emperor changed almost every months at a point... Also , if taking France as a case study, some people in the political landscape were there before I was born, are still there, and will probably still be there in the few next years.
- Leaders in France sell the country out and destroyed France.. Macron insulted people multiple time, humiliated himself as well as the nation and the country (e.g. in China); and has no respect for this place.
- How is press related to democracy exactly? A handful of people own most, iff not all, main medias in France and can saty whatever they say, but are they the people? Or are they the people who lead ? Same for Justice.
- How is multiparty system a sign of democracy? Plus EU is not led by a oparty and yet is the one who decide over members.
- Freedom index doesn't put Chhina last. In fact, Algeria is often one of the dead last instead; which is ironic considering France importing massively Algerians on its territory. Futhermore, on this kind of index, France is a flawed democracy.

So, withh your definition of democracy, if I put nobility in France and change the ruling house every now and then. This can be a democracy. Hmm...

China is in the last positions with Russia, Iran or Korea North. All these countries you seem to admire.

Should I say ok boomer to stay on the same level of argumentation? Plus that's false, even in a world lef by the nice guys.

Taiwan as imperialist as the communist China? It’s a real bullshit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan#/media/File:ROC_Administrative_and_Claims.svg
You seem to forget that Taiwan also is China, just not seemingly communist.

On the other side Chinese government attitude reveal the real nature of this countries they try more or less violently to grab some territories around it.

Here a scoop: China has the power to do it whereas Taiwan doesn't. Any country with a bit of power does the exact same thing starting with the US. Japan also would like to grab some territories inthe area. I know, that sounds crazy... but even France did it before coming to the weird belief that ti was weak and showing its buttcheeks to US.

The stranglehold on some islands in the South China Sea which belong to Philippines clearly show the goals of this dictatorship.

Again, same can be said about powerful enough countries everywhere. Taiwan just doesn't have this power, neither does North Korea. Let's give a try:
The illegal blocus of Venezuela/attack on north stream/attack on Iraq under fake pretext/ingerence in Ukrain, Korea, Vietnam.../neo-colonization of Africa/ingerence and dictatorship coup détat in Latin America/selling of Europe etc. clearly show the goals of this dictatorship.

Just like the invasion of Tibet

let's give a try at your rhetoric : You seem very misingormed or intoxicated by Tibetan propaganda.
More seriously: You forget that Tibet was part of China before its "invasion" if it can be called like that and that CHina was in inner trouble for almost a century. I don't recall any international recognition of Tibet prior to that either, and thus can be considered as an internal problem. Taiwan also claims Tibet by the way.
I honestly don't think France would let Brittany goes free in a similar context, and the events and repression coming after the Revvolution showed it very well.

clashes with India

Surely India is a paragon of virtue... Ah, right, it isn't. It's even tis country that participate to still pay Russian energy (at higher prices) and make absolute fool of EU.

It would be dangerous to do like with Putin: democratic countries have never dared to react firmly to its repeated aggression on its neighbors and now it is war.

Here we agree. It would be extremely dangerous to push a country to the edge and bite us because we act arrogantly and stupidly. More than that, it would only benefit the US and China at the expense of Taiwan and Europeans countries. Oh, you meant to act more rashly to create more dead..? Oh sure... What a thought of someone who will never pay for his decisions... Remember though, people of your generation will probably not be sheltered by people of younger generations if you bring crap too early. So be sure to kill your children when you already lie on your bed since it could be mildly unpleasant to do it before.

Lianshen , your text is a real delirium, everything you tell me is of course contradicted by the facts
No I’m not misinformed by US propaganda. Western journalists pay with their lives for their search for real information. This was again the case recently for a French journalist. It’s totally different from pro-Chinese or pro-Russian journalists who retransmit what the dictatorships tell them to say. A simple fact is that daring to divulge unofficial information can land you in jail or make you disappear forever. If there is not perfect democracy but real dictatorships exist it’s China or Russia. I don’t think you are really French: May be you are sold or a real professional propagandist of the Communist China.
The renewal of the elites is not a sign of democracy? It’s only your opinion but I see when a president or a supreme guide remains in power for a long time, freedom of the people is automatically restricted. Criticism in France is authorized towards our elected officials and I perfectly agree that citizens could protest. Obviously all these people who shouts it gives the impression of anarchy or an illegitimate power but in fact all the countries where the people never protest and give an impression of discipline and perfect submission are generally only dictatorships where the repression is most effective. Xi Jinping has just given himself the power to govern the country for many more years just like Putin. If the Chinese outsmarts the Russian and if democratic countries are more firm in their declarations and their deeds maybe a war after the war in Ukraine could be avoided. Firmness is not arrogance, just the affirmation of indisputable principles. France is not a democracy? I remember that we had twelve candidates for the last presidential elections and eights candidates for the legislative election in our area. All these persons represented very different opinions even sometime antidemocratic. What can we do more? You don’t like to choose?
Among your bullshits, I never heard a so wacky scoop: Taiwan is imperialist as the Communist China, the only difference is China has the power Taiwan doesn’t.
At least I see you finished your text by a threat against those who would try to open the eyes in front of the Xi Jingping projects and want to affirm their convictions and their wishes in the face of dictatorial regimes. Yes that could have bad consequences if this dictator persists in his project but certainly less than let things happen in the name of the friendship of peoples. Your last words are not very clear but surely very rude: “ So be sure to kill your children when you already lie on your bed since it could be mildly unpleasant to do it before.” , this kind of threat can't come from someone responsible
On the other hand our children may reproach us for our attitude if we allow evil to grow as we did with Russia. Remember how west coward was when Putin massacred the Chechens or invaded the Crimea: letting him do this gave him an impression of impunity and increased his greed to conquer ever more. Free countries have never dared to react firmly and now an again more bloody war is unfolding.

everything you tell me is of course contradicted by the facts

Ah yes, the "facts". Wonder which ones though. On my part, I think that claiming "everything" and not providing argument is a bit dogmatic.

Western journalists pay with their lives for their search for real information.

The same that are owned by a handful of billionaires who pushed Macron to his throne? The same who ignore some problems to talk about the weather instead? The same that contradicted themselves in a few months gap during covid ? The same who said that the French people in the street are kind of angry mongrels and who always manipulate statistics to push their agenda?
The same who only talked about grooming gangs when it was not possible to hide it anymore then called the rapists "asians" knowing that most of people will think east or south east asians instead of pakistanis? I sure believe they are searching and providing "real informations" to people.

It’s totally different from pro-Chinese or pro-Russian journalists who retransmit what the dictatorships tell them to say

Yep, West good, other bad. No manicheism here, just straight fact. Fortunately, we belong to the nice guys.

simple fact is that daring to divulge unofficial information can land you in jail or make you disappear forever.

Yep, just like UK wants to put in jail people who look "extremist" contents on the internet.

If there is not perfect democracy but real dictatorships exist it’s China or Russia.

What about a man and his friends passing law against the will of the majority of its people and gasing them when they dare say they disagree? How yes, "no perfect democracy" but certainly not dictatorship... or a tyranny. It appears more and more that de la Boétie was right: people are accomplices of tyrants.

I don’t think you are really French: May be you are sold or a real professional propagandist of the Communist China.

I don't thin you are a real French. Maybe you are sold or a real professional propagandist of the US.
Is that automatically generated when someone doesn't say "wooohooo China bad, Putin is the devil! We should save the world as good people"?

The renewal of the elites is not a sign of democracy? It’s only your opinion but I see when a president or a supreme guide remains in power for a long time, freedom of the people is automatically restricted.

That's not an opinion. You can have plethora of systems that are not democratic in which the elites changes. I'm pretty sure regular change in the elites can even be a sign of a tyranny. In fact, the regular change of elites is first of all a sign of instability.
AS for your statement, it’s an opinion. Even French kings participate to social advance in France.

Criticism in France is authorized towards our elected officials and I perfectly agree that citizens could protest.

No it's not. At best, it's tolerated, and in many cases, it can be repressed. As for protests, they are highly monitored and allowed where no elites care about (which means that the criticism is discarded or vastly ignored).
In fact, the right to strike in France is more of a safety valve that Napoléon III introduced and that later extended to protests, yet monitored and subject to approval.

Obviously all these people who shouts it gives the impression of anarchy [...] but in fact all the countries where the people never protest and give an impression of discipline and perfect submission are generally only dictatorships where the repression is most effective.

Switzerland, Japan, Norway… Seen as more disciplined as France, more submissive for Japan, and not as dictatorship. Oh, yes, Norway has a king, sorry, it’s a dictatorship, and protests can’t be determined by culture or geography at all.

Also, I don’t think French waited the Republic to protest.

Xi Jinping has just given himself the power to govern the country for many more years just like Putin.

Just to make it clear, it's not Xi Jinping who really leads China, but the CCP, which his position in it gives him more power than presidency, but sure, you must know very well how China is, even without knowing this.

If the Chinese outsmarts the Russian and if democratic countries are more firm in their declarations and their deeds maybe a war after the war in Ukraine could be avoided.

What do you mean "outsmart"? In case you haven't realised, it's been a while that the "leader" of the opposed side of the world is led by China, not Russia... It has been showed very well last year again.
As for the "firm democratic countries", that exactly what made this war possible in the first place... and what makes a war in Taiwan in the next years with a high probability.

Firmness is not arrogance, just the affirmation of indisputable principles.

Monitoring others and thinking they don't worth you is arrogance, no matter how you call it. Just like US toward France is pure arrogance and it works because Macron is a corrupted carpet.

France is not a democracy? [...] You don’t like to choose?

I think you have read no political program to make such a statement. All of them were following EU directives or straight lying for saying inapplicable things. Macron sure was antidemocratic from the begining though,but probably you refer to Le Pen and her "citizens' initiative referundum" woooohooo, darkest hours of our history, amiright?

I won’t mention the “castors”, the proximity of programs between Le pen and Mélenchon yet their strange opposition, or all thhe problems occurring during French elections, specifically with Macron (or Biden/Clinton in the US). Bad side must lose; right?

That being said, yes, I love choice, I love choosing between a Douche and a Tird. Since you are into high argumentation questionning my nationality though, allow me to give you the same treatement and call you a typical boomer.

Among your bullshits, I never heard a so wacky scoop: Taiwan is imperialist as the Communist China, the only difference is China has the power Taiwan doesn’t.

Well, Taiwan's claims illustrates it. A scoop for you: Most of countries with enough power are imperialists. Even France! I know, crazy right?

At least I see you finished your text by a threat against those who would try to open the eyes in front of the Xi Jingping projects and want to affirm their convictions and their wishes in the face of dictatorial regimes.

Please, enlight me and do tell me when did I make a threat. I haven't seen where have you talked about Xi's project and how bad it is except for Tibet and Taiwan, but yet again, Taiwan is the remnant of an unfinished civil war and Tibet wasn't really independent at all. More than that, those are used by the US to create a conflict,and Taiwan especially is a pawn that will benefit both China and US with an occurring war provoked by the US just like Ukraine.

You could have stated the neocolonialism of China in Africa, how China bought Greece ((thanks to EU's retardation!) makign us unable to do anythign against this country for example, but no! You focus on how bad China is… in a war with US (we also are at war with the US, in case you don’t know). So yes, we are arrogants and stupids once again.

Your last words are not very clear but surely very rude [...] this kind of threat can't come from someone responsible

Context;
- You are ruining the next generations' life. You promote wars (in Taiwan) and harsh conditions of life because you won't have to care about consequences as a member of an irresponsible generation (ironic to call me someone who's not responsible given this info...)
- "They killed their parents and are assassinating their children" perfectly fits your statements here and boomers in general. Hence, I'm only mentionning that younger generations probably aren't willing to take very much care of old people if the time becomes harder.
- Thus, it's an advice: Wait to be already dying before killing us all, because nobody will be willing to change your diapers else (like boomers weren’t for their parents).

On the other hand our children may reproach us for our attitude [...] Free countries have never dared to react firmly and now an again more bloody war is unfolding.

If I can conceit a point to Chirac, it is that he wasn't such short sighted and didn't participate to the crap in Irak like you would probably have done. We see the results off all the crap and illegal actions in middle east by the way: We pay sometimes with our lives), not mentioning the people of the bombed countries of course...
Remember who throw Russia in China's arms too, when Russia was trying to get closer to us. Do I feel bad for not wanting a bloodbath and wars? Oh yes, surely.

As to end this with an adequate quote:
«Monde de merde».

Ps: nice to see your dodging skills... Maybe I'm more interesting than my arguments, after all.

Lianshen, You're probably a French citizen of Chinese descent, but don't think you have any loyalty to France. The biggest problem of western countries is that they receive immigrants from other countries and then expect loyalty from them. You are a citizen of France, you must defend the interests of France.

Lianshen, You're probably a French citizen of Chinese descent, but don't think you have any loyalty to France. The biggest problem of western countries is that they receive immigrants from other countries and then expect loyalty from them. You are a citizen of France, you must defend the interests of France.

Why? Are we hooligans? Do we need to defend homeland's interests blindly and fanatically? Can't we stand for our own minds and opinions?

If I lived in another country and took advantage of all the possibilities of that country, I would support that country. this is my opinion

Lianshen, You're probably a French citizen of Chinese descent, but don't think you have any loyalty to France. The biggest problem of western countries is that they receive immigrants from other countries and then expect loyalty from them. You are a citizen of France, you must defend the interests of France.

For sure, if I don't fully spit on China, then I must be at least ethnically Han, right? If it's true that some Bretons indeed have slanted eyes, and that there used to be hypothesis of descending from Mongols, as far as I know, we are insular Celt and don't have any kin with East Asians.
Keep trying though, maybe one of you will have a better luck saying that I'm North Korean, Russian, Venezuelan or anything.

As for the interests of France, what I said is very much in its interests. I don't think that promoting a bloodbath in Taiwan or Ukraine is very beneficial to France or Western Europe (or at least, my bank account highly disagree in at least 2 european countries). Quite the opposite in fact. Neither is US our friend at all, or EU a nice and gentle organism (rather a battlefield), especially when it's ironically already rotten by China who has bought Greece and is buying more and more of Europe. France also never had anything to fear about Russia in its history.
Also loyalty isn't following blindly some traitors. Neither it is to be part of the doxa and I don't plan France to rush into a wall.

Taiwan is a friend of us Westerners

Lianshen, You should speak with more precision and no sending absurdities, please take your time to answer. Where did I promote blood bath in Taiwan or in Ukraine? You still don’t want to understand who is the aggressor?
You have the same kind of twisted language as Putin: “The responsible, of the deaths in Ukraine are the Western Nazis who forced Russia to do that”. The real criminals are for you USA and European countries. That’s a big lie and a gross propaganda and you surely know it.
I can tell you one more time some facts:
Putin and Xijing Ping are criminals, they were elected with surely less democratic way than Macron.
It’s Russia the aggressor not Ukraine and If China tries to invade Taiwan that will be China the aggressor. China's plan was clearly expressed by Xijing Ping and the annexation of Taiwan was clearly cited. Like a lot of people who look away to don’t see the horror you will surely say one day: ” I didn’t know” in spite all the evidences in front of your eyes.
And for the case of France if the decision of Macron and his government about the age of retirement could be contested, the next government will have the possibility to modify this law. But I don’t think it will try. When Putin did worst in Russia anly a few dared to protest.
Yes it would be better at short time to let Putin invading quietly Ukraine maybe the inflation we are currently experiencing would be ignored. That’s a traitor attitude.

Where did I promote blood bath in Taiwan or in Ukraine?

You talk about firm responses => escalading rather than dialogues which was an option 20 years ago with Russia. I also recall that western countries gladly fed and still feed China, yet you want escalation which is only detrimental to normal and young people.
That's where you promoted a bloodbath multiple times.

You still don’t want to understand who is the aggressor?

Because I disagree with you, I don't understand.. You talk about "facts" contradicting me, or "absurdities" I say, but you don't backup your claims, which only makes them mere ad hominem; at best.
The world isn't as manichean as you suggest it in your posts, and I'd argue that having a nice guy and an evil side is a very childish perception of the world. In case you haven't realized, there are more than just Russia and Ukraine, and the US are actively messing in the area like they were messing in... Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq and the whole South America; but also EU.
Maybe you also fail to realize that France is at war with the US, and that the country is loosing terribly.

You have the same kind of twisted language as Putin: “The responsible, of the deaths in Ukraine are the Western Nazis who forced Russia to do that”. The real criminals are for you USA and European countries. That’s a big lie and a gross propaganda and you surely know it.

Nice example that you didn't read my answer and twisted it to suit your narrative. Also nice example that you, indeed, don't seem to see the world in othher shade than black and white.

Putin and Xijing Ping are criminals, they were elected with surely less democratic way than Macron.

"Surely", so you don't even know, yet claim it's a "fact". Xi Jinping is elected byt the NPC so, indeed, it's not as democratic as presidential elections wow, big surprise). It's similar to how EU is ruled, but let's not say it here.
You seem to put democracy on a pedestal, as if democracy was the best system in the world, but that's, again, your belief, and Macron's election or French elections in general are so flawed, and so rotten, that French barely have their word in the elections. Only ancient generations still believe in it for strange reasons...

It’s Russia the aggressor not Ukraine

ok, and? Does it prevent Ukraine to be a corrupted country and US to have a huge ingerence there and to push Russia to war? Maybe you will tell me that if France start to put all its pawn in Malian government and threaten Niger, Niger will be the sole responsible and France won't be involved at all? Sure.

If China tries to invade Taiwan that will be China the aggressor.

The question is not if China invade Taiwan, but whhy would it does that after decades (and the possibility to do that long ago), despite claiming to wish toe nd the civil war through diplomacy? What party would get benefits of a war in Taiwan? Why? How?
At these questions : US mostly, China secondly. Who would get fucked? Taiwan firstly, European countries secondly. Taiwan, just like Ukraine, is a pawn for the US.

Like a lot of people who look away to don’t see the horror you will surely say one day: ” I didn’t know” in spite all the evidences in front of your eyes.

No, like for Taiwan, I'd say : I told you that the way US acts only promotes war, and that US as a country NEEDS wars to survive and keeps its hegemony. CHina on its side will get Taiwan no matter what and naturally will be hegemonious (which is nothing good for European countries, just like US), for it's the industrial center of the world, just like it used to be.

And for the case of France if the decision of Macron and his government about the age of retirement could be contested, the next government will have the possibility to modify this law. But I don’t think it will try. When Putin did worst in Russia anly a few dared to protest.

- French did nothing before it was too late and they had their head covered with shit.µ
- Almost nobody does anything apart from French people, which is a cultural exception you don't seem to notice... Belgians quietly accept the same reform, Germans and other also didn't say anything.

Yes it would be better at short time to let Putin invading quietly Ukraine maybe the inflation we are currently experiencing would be ignored. That’s a traitor attitude.

Or he wouldn't have had any reason to invade Ukraine.
Let's admit that you are right though, that opening discussion with Putin instead of displaying agressive behaviour toward Russia: How is that being a traitor to France? To Brittany? As far as I know, Ukraine is not France and is a shitty country as well. More than that, Russia never hhas been a threat to France in its entire history, not even during the Soviet era...
I think that's very different from cutting down cheap energy, increasing inflatio, beign accomplice of destroying Northstream let's be conspiracionist : It's most likely the US, and if it was going to be proven, then that would be an act of war from US toward Germany, Russia and France at very least), lowering our standards, promoting mass population movements, bombing, and potentially promoting a major conflict involving France.

Hmm...

China seems like a jealous country that wants it's claim to the territory of the small independent state of Taiwan because China saw it's name on it in the past. China thinks what goes on in China, stays in China, even if that means an insurrection to topple it's government from power and run them into an island standoff as a hostage. These CCP loyalists never owned China and let alone Taiwan and China's former government as they never minded the Island of Taiwan anyway, until recently when the CCP has begun to grow stronger, and they now want more power and to "crush" the resistance. These people have a very old culture of a one leader and everybody must follow the leader or be called subversive.

China in the modern world becoming a superpower feels embarrassed the Taiwan was once "theirs" and now is a political ally to the West and had not done anything about influencing them right close to home. Taiwan puts America's ideas in China's arena because Taiwan thinks that China stinks. China wants to have it's growth in business so that their army will grow nice and strong so that they can now run the story on how the world sees them. China was a small country who's had been bullied and occupied, now they've gotten big and bringing their toys of war with them to pay back as the bad boy they've become in the world classroom.

All about facts.

Taiwan has always been part of China, and some foreign ill-wishers want to split China. China is the most peace-loving country, who has ever seen a war where China goes? There is no doubt that this is something that does not exist, everywhere the US government goes, it is war, selling weapons, and issuing war wealth, but it is the United States that is worried that the world will not be chaotic. Chinese only want to unify the Motherland and peace, I think, except for a few bandits in the United States, there is no one who does not love peace and does not want the world to be free of war. Finally, Taiwan Province is Chinese, not an independent country. Chinese not jealousy, but taking back what belongs to us!

Lianshen, You should speak with more precision and no sending absurdities, please take your time to answer. Where did I promote blood bath in Taiwan or in Ukraine? You still don’t want to understand who is the aggressor?
You have the same kind of twisted language as Putin: “The responsible, of the deaths in Ukraine are the Western Nazis who forced Russia to do that”. The real criminals are for you USA and European countries. That’s a big lie and a gross propaganda and you surely know it.
I can tell you one more time some facts:
Putin and Xijing Ping are criminals, they were elected with surely less democratic way than Macron.
It’s Russia the aggressor not Ukraine and If China tries to invade Taiwan that will be China the aggressor. China's plan was clearly expressed by Xijing Ping and the annexation of Taiwan was clearly cited. Like a lot of people who look away to don’t see the horror you will surely say one day: ” I didn’t know” in spite all the evidences in front of your eyes.
And for the case of France if the decision of Macron and his government about the age of retirement could be contested, the next government will have the possibility to modify this law. But I don’t think it will try. When Putin did worst in Russia anly a few dared to protest.
Yes it would be better at short time to let Putin invading quietly Ukraine maybe the inflation we are currently experiencing would be ignored. That’s a traitor attitude.

Chinese citizens have no vote in the matter.

I've lived in China for 20 years. China's intention is for reunification by peaceful means, i.e. trade and relations and winning over the population. If there is conflict, it will likely be provoked. Let's have peace. Remember, China has a history of not invading other places. Compare China to other countries in this way. Long live peace!!! No war. Peace.

It’s not very peaceful when China appropriates islands belonging to other countries and makes on it military bases and even threatens any boat that approaches it