Do you think Italy counts in the world ?

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Maybe all the European countries should help. And that we help development in other countries. Maybe that is the only solution. What do you think Lorenzo?

And I am surprised in this forum that people from Italy say that Italy is beautiful (which is true) but that they sometimes dont like Italian people. When we were in Italy EVERYBODY was very kind to us. Even when it was difficult to speak sometimes because our hotel was not in the city centre and outside it people often did not speak English. But they were very friendly. And they could eat A LOTTTTT!!! I have no idea how they can eat so much when the first thing that you eat is already a meal and after that they give a main dish and we were like πŸ˜΅β€πŸ’«πŸ˜΅β€πŸ’«πŸ˜΅β€πŸ’« (except my dad πŸ˜› )

Trust me @Yue_, Italy is beautiful, but most of the italian people are worthless, and i say it as italian. Not all of them of course, and there are also many nice and kind people as well, but most of them are selfish, rude, hypocrite and definitely not supportive each other. I met people from all over the world, and i can say without any doubt that the italians were the worst to talk and to become friends with. Maybe those people were nice with you just because they saw you as tourists aka money, i would not be surprised at all of that.

@Piwipete Here is an article which explains the situation that you described.

Deutschlandfunk

Let's be clear, the only solution we have to stop this immigration is where European nations should create a puppet government in certain African nations, place a pseudo dictator on top of it who is not bloodthirsty but who prohibits the population from leaving their country illegally, they should also establish birth control and raise the cultural level. Then obviously we will need to look for an effective solution to the lack of food and water.


Send these "refugees" to the rich arab neighbour-countries...I have never heard, that Saudi-Arabia or Dubai have accept "refugees"! My german home-town has transformed to a arabic slum since 2015, thanks to the green-socialist politics of our "german" goverment... Europe ist not the Social welfare office of the whole world! And especially Southern Italy has other great social problems then take care of these soldiers of fortune from Nothern Africa or Afghanistan! Look how many Italians in the South are without work...The people in Sicily, Calabria or Basilicata don't need "refugees"...

@Piwipete It would be great if you could sent us some photos of your hometown. So we all can imagine what you mean with "Arabic slum".

Let's be clear, the only solution we have to stop this immigration is where European nations should create a puppet government in certain African nations, place a pseudo dictator on top of it who is not bloodthirsty but who prohibits the population from leaving their country illegally, they should also establish birth control and raise the cultural level. Then obviously we will need to look for an effective solution to the lack of food and water.

I genuinely can't tell whether this is trolling, I don't mean to be rude but these solutions you suggest are just as absurd as they are infeasible on many different levels. Africans are not children, they are independent and deserve to run their countries however they please. However, we as Europeans also need to act based on our own interests and stop welcoming the entire third world with no end in sight. It hurts everyone: Europeans, illegals who wander around aimlessly, and Africa which will never develop. There is no solution to this and they need to go back to their home.

To be honest, I think most European countries are happy not to be in Italy's place.

Yes most illegals come from Italy, but they all want to go to the UK, France, and Germany. Italy is the only Western European country that tries to defends its interests it seems like. Sure the situation there is bad, but I believe it's worse for a number of its neighbors. πŸ™

All European countries should help but some don't. The European Union is in crisis even if no one says so. We should really help African countries. Instead some European governments have given money to dictators and presidents who have done nothing to help their people.

The problem with this is that it essentially suggests "we" (or any third party) need to take over because their leaders are not legitimate/capable of running their countries. I'm sure you can identify the problems it may lead to πŸ˜›.

Africa alone has a population of 1.5B people, and growing by an additional 10% of the size of Europe every single year. Europe's economy has started a slow collapse 15 years ago or so. We can't help nor are we even qualified to fix our own economies in seems like. We need to tackle our fundamental issues before we attempt to do anything with people from other parts of the world. This is absolutely vital.

This forum asked if Italy counts in the world. A country rich in history, art, culture and beauty counts in the world. However, if this country wants to count more, it must have a credible political class. It must have a strong foreign policy without being a slave to the European Union or NATO. We need citizens who pay taxes and governments that do not waste money on failed projects. If all these things were there, Italy would count more. But if we have a government that supports all European policies and supports wars (wanted by others) Italy remains a colony as Berto rightly wrote. And a country that counts for little does not have the strength to seriously address the problem of immigration. It was a pleasure to participate in this discussion but now I'm leaving. Speeches like the one about Saudi Arabia or the air mattress make me leave. Greetings and best wishes to everyone.

🌹🌹 for @Pennarossa2024. You are right i think. πŸ™‚

I made a PPG Peace Agreement forum: https://penpal-gate.net/forum/1-politics-and-governments/10153-ppg-peace-agreement For anybody who wants to help with it in a nice and kind way that would be super nice. Thank you! πŸ™πŸ™

Our family has been to Rome one time and i would ❀️ to go back to Italy to Rome but also to other cities and nature. All Italians in this forum: you have a very beautiful country!! πŸ₯°πŸ₯°

Of course Italy is beautiful. It is a true beacon of history and culture in the world. But in a forum dedicated to politics it's okay if the topic shifts towards societal issues, disagreements don't mean war. Obviously, this is a place to share opinions and we can't have war. Debate though is fundamentally healthy, especially in the complex world we live in. There is a place for balance. Β―\_(ツ)_/Β―

Do you think France and Italy are very different @Etienne? Like the things others said about Italy, does France have the same problems?

Do you think France and Italy are very different @Etienne? Like the things others said about Italy, does France have the same problems?

In regards to what specifically?

In regards to what specifically?

What @Pennarossa2024 and the others said so for example that people dont pay taxes. And that people are thinking of themselves. And if i can remember for example that a lot of money and food is wasted.

In my opinion it seems that the French (Corsica aside) are a much more united and patriotic people compared to the Italians. Italians are mercenaries and opportunists, we are certainly not a united people, you will think that it is the usual question between north and south, in reality there are inhabitants of the same region who hate each other, in Lombardy Bergamo and Brescia hate each other, in Sicily Palermo and Catania they hate each other, in Trentino Alto Adige there is hatred between Trento and Bolzano, in Puglia there is hatred between Lecce and Foggia.....In Tuscany the people of Livorno hate the Pisans etc

What @Pennarossa2024 and the others said so for example that people dont pay taxes. And that people are thinking of themselves. And if i can remember for example that a lot of money and food is wasted.

What @Pennarossa2024 and the others said so for example that people dont pay taxes. And that people are thinking of themselves. And if i can remember for example that a lot of money and food is wasted.

I'm definitely no expert about Italy but I think France and Italy are pretty similar overall. The mindset, the food, the landscapes, the culture.

Paying taxes or having a strong foreign policy aren't goals in and of themselves: they are means/tools towards strategies, which maybe have yet to be defined. Just like with war, no one starts a war for the sake of it, there are always underlying reasons (mostly bad ones, but reasons nonetheless). Sure, a strong foreign policy sounds good out of principle, but in practice what do you do with it? Does it necessarily serve a purpose? For example Switzerland or Norway have virtually no foreign policy whatsoever, and I think it's served them well.

I'm definitely no expert about Italy but I think France and Italy are pretty similar overall. The mindset, the food, the landscapes, the culture.

Paying taxes or having a strong foreign policy aren't goals in and of themselves: they are means/tools towards strategies, which maybe have yet to be defined. Just like with war, no one starts a war for the sake of it, there are always underlying reasons (mostly bad ones, but reasons nonetheless). Sure, a strong foreign policy sounds good out of principle, but in practice what do you do with it? Does it necessarily serve a purpose? For example Switzerland or Norway have virtually no foreign policy whatsoever, and I think it's served them well.

But if you put Italy and France on the scale, it is France that has a stronger foreign policy. Look for example that it was Macron who went to Putin. I have never seen President Mattarella go to the Kremlin

But if you put Italy and France on the scale, it is France that has a stronger foreign policy. Look for example that it was Macron who went to Putin. I have never seen President Mattarella go to the Kremlin

You're right, and after Putin made Macron wait for a half hour alone we were granted this marvelous shot that embodies how powerful the voice of France truly is πŸ˜‚οΈ:


..But at least it helped in stopping the war. Just kidding πŸ˜΅β€πŸ’«οΈ

You can't have a strong voice if you have no economic or military leverage. We gave up on both. We also gave up on charisma, so we can't even try to pretend either. πŸ™„οΈ

But if you put Italy and France on the scale, it is France that has a stronger foreign policy. Look for example that it was Macron who went to Putin. I have never seen President Mattarella go to the Kremlin

Now Italy counts a lot. We have a prime minister who is the most powerful person in Europe πŸ€”πŸ˜Ά

Edited by Pennarossa2024 .

I'm not sure to what extent it will benefit Italy, but I guess it's best to have good relations regardless.

Side question: why do you wrap your own answer with a quote? πŸ€”οΈ It also prevents your text from being quoted since quotes of quotes are ignored by the reply system (and it hides your text from notifications, too)

To be honest? Hell no. At least in part. I am italian,moved to sweden in 2022 and here they all have a weird image of italy. They think snow and cold don’t exist and that it’s like living in the hawaii. They talk about italy yes,but with a wrong image. So in sweden it counts but they don’t know how the real italy is