Fake News Politics and governments

I can also live with other opinions,

Allow me to doubt of this claim... And we get enough of censorship by banning any Russian medias on our internet within EU to add some more here.

And what about the other side? That Putin "only" speaks of denazification, even though there is a war? Didn't someone have to intervene and say: Attention, it's actually a war and 2 million people have already fled?

Nazis exist in Ukraine. They aren't as many as Putin claim, but they do exist and they also took sit on the government. Plus it's a casus belli, as mentionned earlier; hence, ignoring a casus belli because it would be a so called fake news would make you ignore or bann the excuse for this war.

Because of Germany's terrible history, I was in concentration camps a lot and also listened to lectures. For me, the most important message that came out time and again was that it is important for people to say no, even on a small scale, that they stand up, that they are not allowed to watch or look away.

German complex... It's forgetting that banning ideas and censoring them is what mostly lead some ideology to hide out and to spread in shadow before blooming in the social sphere. More than that, you forbid yourself to talk about it properly as well, and to show why or how something is wrong out of just using straw man, leading to a sentiment of injustice and sometimes opression that will make some people more and more radical; just like things happen with some ideologies that are rising back nowadays in our countries.

I'd truly suggest Germans to get over their past before trying to fix the present of other countries, especially if it's going to give a ptsd to Poland 😉

I've heard propaganda from the haters of my country that the US has made mistakes in our judgement in picking wars and are not always correct in calling someone a dictator with weapons of mass destruction.

It's not propaganda, but reality, and after a while, it is not mistakes anymore either... Those "mistakes" are also a reason why some people start to get very suspicious when US and its puppets start to play the innocent when something they seem to be related to or get benefits from is happening.

China and those who hate democracy are in line next with Russia to step out of line

Wasn't aware that France or EU didn't hate democracy... or that democracy was synonym of fairness, justice, nice, kind and all this kind of good words...

who think they know better that the American citizens to correct them

The sad truth is that American citizen are often poorly educated on their own country and its relationship with the external world. Some didn't know that the US for instance is exporting gas (not oil, gas) and has interests in messing with Russia to enter the european market, especially because your gas is kinda expensive and shitty for the environment compared to the russian one.

I've been disgusted by the bullies who devalue our purpose in the world.

Maybe some got sick of a country trying to "police" the world while overusing their softpower and being imperialist... I personally get sick of the US spying on France that is supposed to be its oldest and "best" ally, as well has being snatched. Same, I'm getting sick to see the US threatening others to get what they want or to bombs civilians then blaming Russia or China all the time while also using illegal embargo on Cuba for instance to make the people from some countries starving. Obviously, I also get sick of seeing how americanized my place is getting, which is simply a loss of culture.
Russia and CHina sure aren't so nice, neither are European countries, but US is the most annoying at the moment and in no way reliable.

I think the eastern world can eat their socialist words in Ukraine and set themselves up as a true example of what not to be to the whole world. China and those who hate democracy are in line next with Russia to step out of line and reap the economic consequences for showing disunity if they start an invasion of their own now after they've just united the world as a free-living one and still buys their goods.

Hello, sir. Chinese people don't hate democracy. The Chinese people have their own way of democracy, which is just different from the United States. You can pay attention to our two sessions, and each representative can express his own opinions. It is not only the referendum that calls democracy. We do not have racial discrimination like the United States. Our COVID-19 also controls well. Respect for the life of the people is the best democracy. Without knowing the specific situation of other countries, judging other countries only by their own news is an undemocratic behavior. Democracy is not Coca Cola. It has only one flavor. It should also have the flavor of Pepsi, Fanta and so on.

As I know you Chinese are not exempt from racial preference either.

This is funny. Why do you Westerners always believe those false reports? We did not oppress Uighurs. Our minority policy is the best. They have received many special treatment, such as extra points in the college entrance examination. In the center of our city, there is a mosque, next to which many Uighurs sell beef and Nang cakes. You always say that we make up information. Are you always honest? I really want to see an honest and friendly West

Like a washing machine commercial in China a few years ago where a black man emerges after a wash as a Chinese man to clean things up. It's humorous in China. Or a movie made in China about a ficticious black student who met a friend in China and he never really got into the romantic level with her because he thought she had some special interest in him but he learned he was mistaken to believe she loved him romantically. It was a friendly encouragement to invite him to parties but that was where it stopped at. Besides some in China have called me an ugly foreigner too. It's one thing for the Chinese government to hold ideals for a world prosperity, and another for the people to practice what they value.

@lianshen
Now you have written a lot. I can understand a lot. But I couldn't read how you feel about fake news? Would you actually just let fake news circulate? I am not talking about opinions, but verified untruths.

@Jenny87

You are asking for kinda "white" cencorship. Unfortunately cencorship isn't a natural mechanism working in democracy. "Denazification" claim might be false but not fake. Only two countries voted against at the "Third Committee Adoption of the Combating Glorification of Nazism, Neo-Nazism and other Practices that Contribute to Fueling Contemporary Forms of Racism, Racial Discrimination, Xenophobia and Related Intolerance Resolution" Those were USA and Ukraine. Why? Of course they made some hilarious explanation which is far from the truth. USA simply plans to use neonazist groups in Ukraine as "combatant forces" against Russian threat. It is well known they have been assisted since 2014. I can easily guess the next stage but I shall not speak it out at this moment. Enough to say Zelenskiy shall be the "goat of sin" sooner or later.

I think we're all getting a bit off track right now. The question about this topic is whether you think fake news on this site should be removed, or if it's okay to stay on the site.

In my opinion it's difficult to say what actually is fake, since the chance that you know everything about the ongoing news is nearly zero. You can say it's not based on facts but on opinions/stories, but I think they just should be all on the forum to be eventually discussed.

@lianshen
Now you have written a lot. I can understand a lot. But I couldn't read how you feel about fake news? Would you actually just let fake news circulate? I am not talking about opinions, but verified untruths.

Yes I would. Firstly because only the few hours after its releases are important and after that time, only few people gets to see it without looking for it, thuis the harm is already done, secondly because you can still make an erratum or a "fact checking" (which is, nowaday, not always factual...) afterwards anyway to explain why something is a "fake news".
Also because it's easy to call something a "fake news" despite it is sometimes not really fake, or that the person/institution (and I'm not talking about Russia, Ukraine or the West here) isn't necessarily aiming to mislead people.

Finally, even if it's a fake news, if can provide a new angle, a new perspective on a problem which can, in the end, be useful nevertheless.

Like a washing machine commercial in China a few years ago where a black man emerges after a wash as a Chinese man to clean things up. It's humorous in China. Or a movie made in China about a ficticious black student who met a friend in China and he never really got into the romantic level with her because he thought she had some special interest in him but he learned he was mistaken to believe she loved him romantically. It was a friendly encouragement to invite him to parties but that was where it stopped at. Besides some in China have called me an ugly foreigner too. It's one thing for the Chinese government to hold ideals for a world prosperity, and another for the people to practice what they value.

I think you misunderstood, sir. At least in my opinion, you are an objective and rational person. In the later period of Trump's administration, the United States adopted an attitude of hostility to China, because China has indeed developed too fast, affecting the hegemony of the United States, so many Chinese do not like the United States. However, this does not mean that the Chinese people have lost their rationality. We love to associate with friendly Americans. We are not against the American people, we are only against American imperialism.

Yes we could be shocked by some evident fake news, some texts could be viciously tendentious or we could be suspicious about the real identity of some profiles but that would be worse if the administrators controlled the messages to decide to warn people about fake news or downright suppress some of them too disgusting or evidently wrong. With such a method we could rapidly fall in a system whose we denounce the excess: A superior authority says what must be believed or not. For me, even extremist point of view or deliberately liar must be published. Some systems that initially wanted to impose truth and morality for the good of everyone, sooner or later end up being diverted from their purpose and became a tool to control the minds. It's up to everyone to thwart the traps of fake news, which has the merit of sometimes creating interesting debates, but it's also true that dismantling fake news takes more time than creating it. In the meantime the damage is already done.

I'm somewhat late to the party but I'm the administrator OP mentioned in her original post.

Our stance is quite simple: anyone can express themselves freely as long as they don't violate the law. Insulting, threatening or promoting violence won't be tolerated. Aside from that, anyone is welcome to share their opinions. Censorship isn't the right way to keep a society healthy. Besides, to those who report messages on a regular basis simply because they don't agree with the content: please stop. Only hateful messages will be removed, as we will always try to protect freedom of speech.

To specifically address the "fake news" aspect of the topic: of course fake news are an issue. However, I am certainly not the judge of what is fake news and what isn't. What is fake news one day may turn out not to be the next day. It has happened many times. Penpal-Gate shall not be used as a tool for a political agenda, whether it be for one side or another. Let's all keep in mind we are all influenced in some way - especially in a time of conflict - so let's try to be civil in our discussions, which I think the majority of people are doing a good job at it. 🙂

Actually I appreciate free speech on this site a lot. And so I prefer hard arguing than censorship, especially that it's often not easy to recognize if something is fake news. Mostly, because "fake news" can be wide variety of informations. It could be even something what some group consider as science or proven thing, while most people are not able to verify such things.

We have enough of censorship on sites like Facebook or YouTube, so please, let PenPal Gate be the place where I don't have to worry about my words, just because someone could not like it.

it's hard for him to class all the stuff people write

Well. When foreign affairs and politics are on the table, there is no universal truth. Each and every states pay regard to their own interests, and most of times these interests conflict. Then truth depends on which shoes you've on your feet. If you wear Ukrainian shoes, their country is invaded and they are dreadfully suffering and facing the bloody nature of war. If you wear Russian shoes, their country has been besieged by some Nato - we know who is the master of this puppet actually - designed neo-liberal satellite states in order to isolate the Russia and to break its sphere of influence. If you wear the shoes of People of Donbass, Ukrainian goverment was not honest with them and Ukrainian army was not kind to them either. There are lots of files for war crimes in Donbass region commited by Azov Batallion, Aidar Batallion since 2014. In media we see a simple word such as "seperatists" as if they popped up all of a sudden and they have no houses and families over there. As you see, all of the claims have some fair ground. But easiest way is accusing Russia with expansionism and ignoring the fact Nato is nothing but expansionism device of United States. Difficult to point out "pure evil" in this picture.

Germany's horrible history.... No, it was the horrible history of mankind. We are just wanted to focus on that part and taught that way. I can easily say it as a historian by profession. No body can deny that concentration camps were evil but yet no body can say that using atomic bomb over Hiroshima and Nagazaki was a good thing either. Or no body tells what happened to East Germans left behind in the historical lands of Prussia. No body tells about that mini-scale ethnic cleansing and revenge act. To be victorious does not legitimise our horrible acts.

Standing for the poor one is an act with honor but yet there is a huge difference between being an "idealist" and "quixotic" Therefore we always need to know finest details in the story first. Otherwise we get manipulated easily.

All in all, I don't say "just look away", I rather say "look at some exact direction". Don't watch the "stage" but "the back stage". In short term Ukraine will be suffering. In long term, Russia will be suffering. They both will lose this war. But some global "destabilizer" will win this war. I hope my words make some sense.

Very nice explanation.

The worldhave to come to some agreement, otherwise what we are talking about doesn't make much sense.