Islam

Vietare l’Islam non eliminerebbe la violenza politica. La violenza non è causata da una religione in sé, ma da specifiche condizioni politiche, sociali e storiche, oltre che da interpretazioni estremiste che esistono in molti contesti diversi.

You are almost there; now consider that Islam more than any religion is a powerful political tool and that the Qu'ran is a text of law. That muslim countries show very distinctive patterns and that their history show a spread of the religion through the blade above all others.

The fact that you mention Germans during 1930's is interesting too: Yes, most Germans were probably not extremists and most likely had no desire to resort to violence, yet, we all know that Germany and Japan made awful things in 30-40's. You don't need to have a majority of "evil" people to get into a very bad situation, but to get an environment that can bring most people to support you and support the extremist view.
Like you said, the same applies with Islam, at least in non-muslim countries.

Some people here seemingly haven't seen how the West has changed with Islam and compliance towards it. It would be better to each have our own places and get Christians and Atheists in Europe and Muslims in the Islamic world. Alas, for some reasons many people want to run away from the Islamic world and still bring Islam in their luggages.

If someone has come from an Islamic country to the western world and they still choose to practice their faith they are not escaping their religion! I think many people who immigrate to Europe, UK, America etc are seeking employment opportunities with better pay. For the longest time in history many weastern countries have exploited countries like mine (Pakistan) for their natural resources and have undermined the citizens position. I think it’s only fair if they have equal opportunities to moves accross border for and improved quality of life.

You have emphasized all your response on my last sentence while completely ignoring the rest, especially about cultural and legal aspect linked to the practice of Islam. That speaks volumes.

Please, don't bring the taqqiya and the victim card game on the table.

You have emphasized all your response on my last sentence while completely ignoring the rest, especially about cultural and legal aspect linked to the practice of Islam. That speaks volumes.

Please, don't bring the taqqiya and the victim card game on the table.

You’re right, I shouldn’t have responded based on a small part of what you said. I just felt it necessary to explain why people may immigrate. For many Islamic functioning countries they do use the Quran as primary texts for their constitution but when radical or extremist groups are formed they tend to undermine why the Quran says. For example ISIS and their horrific actions against the Yazidi community. I remember watching their actions as a young teenager and feeling repulsed by what they did because the Quran says to treat everyone equally regardless of differences yet based solely on their culture and religion they carried out mass atrocities. I think extremist groups like this should be separated from Islam. I’m not sure if that answers what you wrote or if I have just completely misunderstood what you said but that’s my opinion. 🙃

At the end of the day, every religion is an umbrella, holding many kinds of things. We should always take care to judge people as individuals, not as groups.

And let's also consider that just because people come from a predominantly Islamic country, they might not be Muslims. They might even have been born and raised Muslim and still not be Muslim. I was born and raised Christian, but I found that stuff to be oppressive so I've since walked my own path. It's the same with many Muslims raised in oppressive branches of their religion, only they might not be able to openly say they are no longer Muslim because they might receive death threats from their extremist relatives.

In my country, there are Christian cults who, if someone says they are no longer a member, the other members won't even say hi to them if they cross each other on the street, even if they were parent and child while in the cult. These kinds of cruel and intolerant practices often lead someone who leaves a cult to pretend they are still a member in order to keep contact with those members of their family who were kind to them. I'm ready to wager this happens a lot with extremist Muslims too: the person who wants to distance themselves move far away, then maintain some sort of outward trappings of Islam but in their hearts they don't think they are Muslim. In the extremist circles of any faith, apostasy seems to be leading the apostate to trouble, so therefore I can well understand why some might keep pretending they hold to a faith they have actually abandoned. That's why a lot of the Muslims in the west are actually those who are not extremists, because they have needed to escape their own extremist relations. Just like here in the land of Christian cults, many who leave their native area they leave because they want to breathe and not be members of an extremist cult.

If we want to be concerned with religious extremism, which is a good thing, we should be concerned about all extremist cults of all religions, instead of chasing members of one religion regardless if they are extremist or not. And btw. Christian extremism is very much in the rise in the west and often these Christian extremists, instead of looking at their own misogynistic and LGBT+ hostile attitudes want to point fingers at Muslims as a blanket group. Coincidence? I think not. Point fingers loudly enough and there's a chance that the sins of the Christian extremists go unnoticed.

I believe that there is only one truth and one true religion...I´ve studied the Islam and also the Quran for many years in private to detail...but the Islam cannot answer the very basic question: why did God create the world and the human beings? (whereas the Catholic Church has a simple, logic and beautiful answer: from love). Also, the author of the Quran does not mention or know the most essential truth about God: "God is love".

The Crucification is denied without any proofs just saying it is a lie - whereas we have many historic proofs for the opposite. In many countries it is forbidden to study the Quran critically.

Furthermore, the truth is timeless. God will never reduce His moral values. E. g. polygamy and divorce was strictly banned by Jesus Christ. - Muhammad reintroduced both.

However, I am glad that muslims value the virginity of Mary and pay great respect to her.

I hope you will respect my honest opinion and please don´t feel offended. God bless ✨

I deeply respect your opinion but I think it’s important to answer some of your questions or confusions. In Islam we believe this life is a test, those who pass it will be sent to heaven and those who fail it will be sent to hell. Allah SWA created humankind to know and worship him (Quran 51:56), to exercise moral responsibility (Quran 2:30) and to freely choose god with one’s own choice (67:2).

Regarding the concept of love, in the Quran Allah tells his people he loves them and this is shown in many ayats e.g. 5:54 - He loves them, and they love him, 3:31 - God will love you and forgive your sins etc. Allah has 100 names and one of them is Al-Wadud translated as the most loving. I know the meanings may differ but Allah loves his people.

Prophet Mohammed (PBUO) allowed polygamy only under the circumstances that the man ensures all 4 wives are treated with equality.

Divorce was introduced to prevent any harm.

This is based on what the Quran teaches, and it’s not said to offend anyone or their religious beliefs.

Does Islam teach its followers never to resort to violence or anger? Haven't you ever read the Quran? Killing an unbeliever is clearly written there. Slavery is perfectly legal in that case; how else can you force someone to work for nothing without violence? Are women's rights respected in the Quran? I don't think so. In the case of testimony, a woman's opinion is worth less than a man's, and when it comes to inheritance, a woman is disadvantaged compared to her brother. Woman must hide her hairs sometime all the face. Why such stupidities. Is God so idiot and cruel? There are many verses that are unacceptable in my opinion. If we're being perfectly logical, Islamist terrorists are simply applying these verses and are so perfect muslims. Why don't such contradictions trouble your conscience?

I deeply respect your opinion but I think it’s important to answer some of your questions or confusions. In Islam we believe this life is a test, those who pass it will be sent to heaven and those who fail it will be sent to hell. Allah SWA created humankind to know and worship him (Quran 51:56), to exercise moral responsibility (Quran 2:30) and to freely choose god with one’s own choice (67:2).

Regarding the concept of love, in the Quran Allah tells his people he loves them and this is shown in many ayats e.g. 5:54 - He loves them, and they love him, 3:31 - God will love you and forgive your sins etc. Allah has 100 names and one of them is Al-Wadud translated as the most loving. I know the meanings may differ but Allah loves his people.

Prophet Mohammed (PBUO) allowed polygamy only under the circumstances that the man ensures all 4 wives are treated with equality.

Divorce was introduced to prevent any harm.

This is based on what the Quran teaches, and it’s not said to offend anyone or their religious beliefs.

Thank you for your answer.

As you said yourself, Muhammad reintroduced polygamy - not the Lord.

1) Honestly, it is impossible to treat and truly love 4 women with equality. Muhammad called Fatima his favourite wife, isn´t it?

2) I doubt that any woman wants to be one of multiple women - instead of being the unique love of her husband. It´s degrading.

3) It makes perfect sense that true religion upholds the highest moral standards. God does not lower His moral standards. It does not make any sense that He should change His word...and suddenly gives permission for polygamy and divorce...??

4) In the Christian faith, marriage is a lifelong, indissoluble union between one man and one woman (that is open to procreation). This is the perfect, divine model of the love. It was like this in the beginning when He created Adam and Eve (not 4 Eves) and it is His will forever.

5) Divorce creates, not prevents harm. E. g. Children with divorced parents have 4 years less life expectation in the average.

6) Moreover, the Quran allows death punishment, maybe even torture? The Catholic faith doesn´t. The truth does not need violence.

Maybe you know the example which is often used by muslims to illustrate the "mercy" of Muhammad. It is about a woman who broke the marriage. Some muslims claim it is mercy because he allowed her to first give birth to her child and even feed it for a year...but after the baby did not need milk anymore, he took her child and gave it to another man...and gave permission to stone her.

Jesus instead faced the same situation...the woman was saved, He forgave her the sins and asked her not to sin again.-

Should God give different instructions in the same case...?

Maybe those thoughts will sounds provokative. I don´t want to be offensive and I hope all the other muslim readers wont get angry...it´s just what I heard and learnt so far.

God bless. ✨

Does Islam teach its followers never to resort to violence or anger? Haven't you ever read the Quran? Killing an unbeliever is clearly written there. Slavery is perfectly legal in that case; how else can you force someone to work for nothing without violence? Are women's rights respected in the Quran? I don't think so. In the case of testimony, a woman's opinion is worth less than a man's, and when it comes to inheritance, a woman is disadvantaged compared to her brother. Woman must hide her hairs sometime all the face. Why such stupidities. Is God so idiot and cruel? There are many verses that are unacceptable in my opinion. If we're being perfectly logical, Islamist terrorists are simply applying these verses and are so perfect muslims. Why don't such contradictions trouble your conscience?

Well, let's not forget that bible is perfectly fine with slavery too and in biblical law, daughters get nothing. Compared with bible, Quran is actually progressive in the matter of the inheritance of daughters. Neither is treating people equally, obviously, but just saying.

I don`t care. Believe what you want. Religion is a private matter you should keep it that way. Don`t bother other people who don`t wanna know in what god you believe.

Yeah, that's right!

Indeed, in the Old Testament, which is the foundation of the three major religions, God even specifies how to treat slaves and, of course, has no qualms about the massacres he himself instigates or orders. One could say he has had more people killed than the Devil. It's also quite perplexing to learn in the Bible that the great King Solomon, the very embodiment of wisdom, had seven hundred wives and three hundred concubines. Such a family life must have been incredibly complicated! Therefore, you can understand that I tend to think that religions are based on old, barbaric legends and, above all, initially had a primarily political purpose.

What are your opinions on the Islamic faith?

As someone who turned to the catholic faith in hard times over the past few years, I took it upon myself to read and do a bit of studying of different religions and their histories.

I personally see Christianity, Islam, and Judaism as closely related faiths that have built off of each other.

Having met Muslim individuals, I have seen dedication to their religion that is amazing.

As a white American woman, I think there are certain groups of people who push anti Islamic propaganda. While every religion and part of the world can have dangerous factions, I certainly don't look negatively at Muslims as a whole.

I think everyone is an individual and the choices they make are on them and not their religions. I'm happy to make Muslim friends and learn more about their culture and religion!

Does Islam teach its followers never to resort to violence or anger? Haven't you ever read the Quran? Killing an unbeliever is clearly written there. Slavery is perfectly legal in that case; how else can you force someone to work for nothing without violence? Are women's rights respected in the Quran? I don't think so. In the case of testimony, a woman's opinion is worth less than a man's, and when it comes to inheritance, a woman is disadvantaged compared to her brother. Woman must hide her hairs sometime all the face. Why such stupidities. Is God so idiot and cruel? There are many verses that are unacceptable in my opinion. If we're being perfectly logical, Islamist terrorists are simply applying these verses and are so perfect muslims. Why don't such contradictions trouble your conscience?

Hi Anil, I’m not judging you for where you got your knowledge from but let me add to it.

Violence and killings

The Quran does not say kill unbelievers wherever you see them, instead it’s referring to war.

“Fight in the way of God those who fight you, but do not transgress. Indeed, God does not like transgressors.” (2:190)

“If they cease, then indeed God is Forgiving and Merciful.” (2:192)

“There is no compulsion in religion.” (2:256)

“Whoever kills a soul… it is as if he had slain mankind entirely.” (5:32)

These are some of the verses in the Quran related to violence.

Slavery

You said the Quran promotes slavery but that is incorrect. The Quran was introduced in the 7th century when violence was already entrenched within society. It didn’t abolish it but there were pathways for emancipation. Slavery has been a part of society for a long period of time, for example the USA was using African American slaves up until the 19th century. I do not support slavers at all.

Women’s rights

Islam doesn’t force women to cover their entire faces, this is simply an interpretation of certain cultures from the Quran. If we look at covering women’s bodies, doesn’t Christianity also require such an act from women, yet only Muslims are criticised for it… maybe the levels of self coverage differs but the idea is the same. The Quran also encourages such a thing to prevent the harassment of women, and if we look at society and men who commit sexual crimes against women often defend themselves saying it was to do with what she was wearing. In this statement I am not judging anyone’s dressing sense and I think we are all lucky to live in a world where women are able to challenge the male idea but when the Quran came out female rights were limited to non-existent. In financial rights women receive fewer rights compared to their male counterparts due to women being given financial support through dowry etc. Whether this still applies in today’s context can be criticised but that was the purpose behind it.

Men had always harassed women no matter what they wear.

I should be free to walk around naked and no one should touch me! Can we fucking stop blaming the victims? If you're a man and you can't keep it in your pants, it's not my fault!

Islamic men have zero respect for women, I can give you a thousand of examples. And you forgot to mention that in the Qur'an is stated when and how to hit women so stop spreading bullshit!

Islam is, as many religions, a patriarchy. A woman in Iran was STONED TO DEATH BECAUSE SHE WAS RAPED! Tell me again how it was her clothes that lead to that.

Indeed, in the Old Testament, which is the foundation of the three major religions, God even specifies how to treat slaves and, of course, has no qualms about the massacres he himself instigates or orders. One could say he has had more people killed than the Devil. It's also quite perplexing to learn in the Bible that the great King Solomon, the very embodiment of wisdom, had seven hundred wives and three hundred concubines. Such a family life must have been incredibly complicated! Therefore, you can understand that I tend to think that religions are based on old, barbaric legends and, above all, initially had a primarily political purpose.

I wrote a poem about this but something happened and I don't see it.

God killed so much more people than the Devil, innocent ones, while the Devil punishes those who misbehave during life. I find that hilarious tbh!

And Satan was god's favourite but he was punished... He also let his only son get killed. Weird🙄

There may be beautiful things written in the Quran, but at the same time, there are horrible things. A Muslim can choose according to their state of mind without the slightest pang of conscience. Regarding killing non-Muslims, here, for example, is verse 89 of Surah 4 (An-Nisa): They would love to see you disbelieve just as they disbelieve, so that you would become equal. So do not befriend any of them unless they emigrate in the way of God. If they turn away, seize them and execute them wherever you may find them; and do not take from among them allies or supporters. In this verse, it is even forbidden to befriend a non-Muslim. Personally, I cannot accept these words, which can only incite hatred.

In my career in the field of international finance, I rarely have to familiarize myself with religious constraints that may govern specific transactions. A rare exception was a prolonged conversation with a Shariah Board to certify a particular financial product as Shariah compliant.

Somewhat out of context: it reminded me of reading Dante’s Divina Commedia where usurers are situated in the Seventh Circle of the Inferno. The act of “making money with money” was perceived to constitute an act of violence (as applies to those guilty of blasphemy and sodomy). The prospect of being scorched by burning flames falling from the sky - similarly unnatural as the act of usury or lending against interest - may not be the ideal start of a career in banking.