Ho usato il traduttore, grazie mille
🇬🇧 You are welcome and if i have to look up more news you can tell me! 🙂
🇮🇹 Di niente e se devo cercare altre notizie puoi dirmelo! 🙂
Καλώς ήρθες! Το Penpal-Gate ενώνει ανθρώπους από όλον τον κόσμο. Παρακαλούμε Συνδέσου ή Δημιούργησε λογαριασμό.
It is NOT, and with our current healthcare system that is probably a good thing.
That said, if we had a single payer healthcare system that covered everyone, my view would definitely be different at least related to anyone over 21.
Prostitution of under age people should NEVER be legal! But, if grown up adults who know and understand fully what they are selling wish to sell that, I don't think it is my business so long as it is not a threat to public health.
If it were to be legalized, it would have to be regulated so that everyone doing it is registered. Prostitutes would need to be working for themselves and NOT to earn third parties money. And there would have to be some medical component regulated and enforced to ensure everyone doing this trade was getting proper care and testing VERY regularly to prevent disease spread. If that were in place and everyone doing this profession were at least 21 my position is, not my clowns, not my circus. If someone else wants to do that.... Not my business.
It's not at all.if government make it illegal the order of society will be quiet chaotic,and many illness may appear more times.Besides,this will equal to damage family relationship illegally.But i heard that some countries have a plan to make it illegal for more income
It's not at all.if government make it illegal the order of society will be quiet chaotic,and many illness may appear more times.Besides,this will equal to damage family relationship illegally.But i heard that some countries have a plan to make it illegal for more income
It is important to regulate this services for medical and humanitarian reasons, as @Wildflower-Farm already pointed out, but @fivefish, I think you overestimate the significance of brothels for society. It might cause a collapse of society in Bucarest for example, where it seems the entire city is a brothel. Funny thing is prostitution is illegal in Rumania 😃. Someone make sense of that
It is important to regulate this services for medical and humanitarian reasons, as @Wildflower-Farm already pointed out, but @fivefish, I think you overestimate the significance of brothels for society. It might cause a collapse of society in Bucarest for example, where it seems the entire city is a brothel. Funny thing is prostitution is illegal in Rumania 😃. Someone make sense of that
Thanks for ur lesson,maybe i am too young to say these hahaha.But what u say make some sence because they still live in the world even if many people think it's bad.So I agree with u but i think its disadvantages are more than advantages
I actually don't entirely disagree with you. When we make a thing illegal, we typically make it more dangerous for the individual and for society. I am not arguing that it should remain illegal. I am arguing, what should be involved in legalizing it. The important things to consider and to insist on to make it as safe as possibly. Simply declaring it legal, doesn't negate the danger it can pose to society if we declare it legal and then leave it entirely unregulated to function un-altered by it's new legal status, as it has always functioned while illegal. Simply declaring it legal does not create safety where danger was back when it was illegal. What does that, is writing a good law that both legalizes it and also protects society from it's dangers. It doesn't have to be either or safe or illegal, dangerous or legal. It can be made both by writing regulations surrounding it even while you legalize it. You can also make it beneficial to society. You can make it necessary for prostitutes to purchase a license to do what they do from the municipality then use that income to fund the local school, or hospital, or cultural enrichment like opera in the park through the summer months that is free to attend. To get a license perhaps in addition to paying some small fee, you also must present a clean blood test every month to maintain that license in good standing? I am not at all opposed to legal prostitution. But just as I don't want coal mines operating with no safety procedures or actions to prevent black lung, I don't want prostitutes operating in such a way that within a month of legalizing it, we all have syphilis. If it is going to be a legal industry, then like all other legal industries, it will still have to accept some regulation.
Thanks for ur lesson,maybe i am too young to say these hahaha.But what u say make some sence because they still live in the world even if many people think it's bad.So I agree with u but i think its disadvantages are more than advantages
When we are in Amsterdam at Chinatown at the Zeedijk and you walk to the rest of the centre I always walk through the Wallen and that is the super famous prostitution area. But i often think about how many who do that REALLY do that freely or are maybe forced to do that. And the same in other countries where there is prostitution. I think maybe a lot is not really free but bc somebody forces them or bc they have a LOTTTT of debts and it is impossible to solve it. But i dont know if it is true but i think about it when i walk through it.
Sometimes if we have family from China to come visit us they ask if it is even safe to walk there but it is not a problem. And nobody will harm you and for us it is just a street bc it is the easiest to go to the shopping parts if you are at Chinatown. But maybe it is still dangerous but i mean for the people who work there but i dont know if that is really the case.
Please, help me a moment; what does prostitution exactly means?
I agree about the forced factor. NO ONE should be forced into prostitution! Which is why as I said, one regulation must be that only legal adults can legally do it and the other is that no third parties earning money off those adults who choose this. No pimps to get rich by selling women. That is a no. If it is going to be a thing, it must be regulated to prevent disease spread, must only be legal adults, and 100% of all monies involved goes to the one actually having the sex with the person paying.
I think the leading causes of debt in this country would be medical care and or housing needs.... Or student loan debt. I think in EU the system is better as it is possible to live without these so most folks don't have horrific debt.
When we are in Amsterdam at Chinatown at the Zeedijk and you walk to the rest of the centre I always walk through the Wallen and that is the super famous prostitution area. But i often think about how many who do that REALLY do that freely or are maybe forced to do that. And the same in other countries where there is prostitution. I think maybe a lot is not really free but bc somebody forces them or bc they have a LOTTTT of debts and it is impossible to solve it. But i dont know if it is true but i think about it when i walk through it.
Sometimes if we have family from China to come visit us they ask if it is even safe to walk there but it is not a problem. And nobody will harm you and for us it is just a street bc it is the easiest to go to the shopping parts if you are at Chinatown. But maybe it is still dangerous but i mean for the people who work there but i dont know if that is really the case.
I agree about the forced factor. NO ONE should be forced into prostitution! Which is why as I said, one regulation must be that only legal adults can legally do it and the other is that no third parties earning money off those adults who choose this. No pimps to get rich by selling women. That is a no. If it is going to be a thing, it must be regulated to prevent disease spread, must only be legal adults, and 100% of all monies involved goes to the one actually having the sex with the person paying.
I think the leading causes of debt in this country would be medical care and or housing needs.... Or student loan debt. I think in EU the system is better as it is possible to live without these so most folks don't have horrific debt.
@Wildflower-Farm Regarding 100% of the service fee going to the prostitute, unfortunately in such a business protection is crucial. To put it in the words of Nicolas Cage, "The pimp is necessary evil".
Absolutely agree with you on the student loans, housing market and cost of life and prosperity in general, although I think its a long distance race and the EU has no intension of loosing to the US. We will catch up with you guys eventually. I recently watched the following talk with George Monbiot The True Origin of Capitalism - George Monbiot (Part 1). Unfortunately I think globalism will have end up having been the cherry on top of this cake we call Neo Liberalism, making evolving from it - at best - very very unlikely in any near future. And god forbid we start thinking about this thinks from a Darwinian point of view 😃.
@LandRoverDiscovery2 having sex for money
Idk, but i rather dont know it neither.
@Wildflower-Farm Regarding 100% of the service fee going to the prostitute, unfortunately in such a business protection is crucial. To put it in the words of Nicolas Cage, "The pimp is necessary evil".
Absolutely agree with you on the student loans, housing market and cost of life and prosperity in general, although I think its a long distance race and the EU has no intension of loosing to the US. We will catch up with you guys eventually. I recently watched the following talk with George Monbiot The True Origin of Capitalism - George Monbiot (Part 1). Unfortunately I think globalism will have end up having been the cherry on top of this cake we call Neo Liberalism, making evolving from it - at best - very very unlikely in any near future. And god forbid we start thinking about this thinks from a Darwinian point of view 😃.
Body guards are legal and available. As are the police when you can call them cuz you aren't breaking the law. I don't object either to an organized situation where prostitutes rent rooms like hair dressers rent chairs. So if there is a problem in their room, there is someone there to call the police or to take some sort of necessary action. I don't think pimps are necessary if it is legal. If it is legal, the system and protections can be reorganized. It should be illegal to make money off selling the flesh of another person period.
Body guards are legal and available. As are the police when you can call them cuz you aren't breaking the law. I don't object either to an organized situation where prostitutes rent rooms like hair dressers rent chairs. So if there is a problem in their room, there is someone there to call the police or to take some sort of necessary action. I don't think pimps are necessary if it is legal. If it is legal, the system and protections can be reorganized.
Q: What`s the difference between theory and practice?
A: In theory, there is none, but in practice there is.
1) My friends and I were once attacked by some guys. Just take my word for it, that I was absolutely innocent in this scenario. Long story short, the police arrived and we explained what had happened in great detail. We were informed that the guys were already known to the police. However when I went to the police station a few weeks later to give a statement and sign of the police report. I was not only painted the main character, but the report also contained lies about things I supposedly said to the police. Needless to say I was the only black guy in the confrontation and funny enough I was the only one trying to deescalate the situation until the need to physically defend myself arose. The police factually lied in their report
2) Another time I was attacked by a bouncer at a club because I said, and I quote "You are the most impolite club I ever encountered". I wasn' t drunk, provocative or aggressive. I called the police and I spare you the details, but lets just say racism can be subtle at times. I gave the police my ID card and they took my details. Months later when I got the police report, They had misspelled my name and my citizenship in the report was Central African (I am German, which is written on my ID).
I filled a complain against the police regarding details not mentioned. I also have an ongoing law case against the offender and when talking to my lawyer regarding involving the police in the case, she said and I quote "The police wont remember anything that could help us". Because I had filled a complain.
Caviar on top: Directly after the incident, I contacted the police and asked them to collect the video records from the club, as that would have left no room for discussion. What did they do? They emailed the club, asking them to send them the records. Et quelle surprise, the club was undergoing a system change and they had no videos of the entire club of that night. (Maybe the police didnt have an interest in any video of how the police behaved that night seing the day of light).
Summary: I believe that you think the police is that entity you can always rely on and there is no need to take matters in your own hand, unfortunately my experience has proven the police not only to be incompetent, but corrupt and racist as well. I am a mathematician, well spoken, not aggressive and in no ways in a surrounding that could justify any of the things I have experienced with the police, so I guess all I have to say about the police argument is the following:
in theory you are right, unfortunately not in practice!
If you belong to the group of people, who can count on them, good for you, but If I cant rely on the police, do you think a prostitute who is exposing her body to the kind of men taking those services will lay her safety in their hands?
Sorry for getting emotional about this, but the ignorance of some people when it comes to the police even after all we have been exposed to by the media is hard to bare at times, especially with you being from the US.
It should be illegal to make money off selling the flesh of another person period.
I don't see an argument here, just your personal opinion which you think should hold for all mankind. I am estimating here, but I`d guess approx. 90% of the world population sells their body for money in one way or another. I think you just have a different view on sex in general. I could easily think of other topics regarding sex, where I imagine you would have an adjacent view
Επεξεργάστηκε από τον/την Fyuuj .
"Summary: I believe that you think the police is that entity you can
always rely on and there is no need to take matters in your own hand,
unfortunately my experience has proven the police not only to be
incompetent, but corrupt and racist as well. I am a mathematician, well
spoken, not aggressive and in no ways in a surrounding that could
justify any of the things I have experienced with the police, so I guess
all I have to say about the police argument is the following:"
The police ARE SUPPOSED to be an entity ALL can depend on. I am aware that unfortunately that functionally it doesn't always work out that way. I marched with BLM, donate money to that cause regularly. So watch who you judge on this issue. Right now, I am busy, on top of my farming, trying to help a friend find and pay for a good discrimination lawyer to take on a major university. I don't expect a damn thing out of it. I do it, because racism makes my stomach turn and because she asked for help. She is a biology student. I never said you were aggressive. So please don't pretend that I did. I have seen white dudes act like assholes to the cops and I was shocked by their restraint. I have seen african americans, calm polite and hands where cops can see them get assaulted. Back in my uni days, I watched a drunk white guy harass some poor african american man and his little girl. I watched that poor man make so much effort to get away from that white guy and to stay calm. Then the white guy invaded his little girl's personal space, he snapped just as I would have. He hit the drunk in the face. Drunk white guy called the police. Police asked me what I saw. I told them I watched a white guy soooo drunk that he punched himself in the face. No one hit him. And when the cop looked at me dubiously I said to him if you keep pressing this I am gonna tell you *I* hit him cuz I should have. That poor guy with the little girl was so scared..... I felt so bad for him. I watched a man have his neck kneeled on. I cried for his family. I cried for him. I saw numerous people of color shot on the news due to no knock warrants and police errors and other assorted cop bullshit. These things are NOT ok. That said, we have a system, one we need to do a hell of a lot more to fix because you are right, there is no equity in it and some folks are getting murdered and otherwise abused and mistreated by the system. But it remains the system we have. Just as often, it gets it right and does the right thing. Not all cops are racists. Though, enough are. We should really incentivize getting them out of the field.
Yes. You see my opinion, and what SHOULD hold true for all mankind. You are NOT wrong that it doesn't always hold true and something is fucking wrong when it doesn't. I also believe I said something too that you completely ignored about prostitutes hiring a bodyguard. Or operating collectively renting private spaces somewhere and I would assume there would be several bouncers on facility private employ to deal with the kinds of icky who would mistreat women. Which would be a private solution not involving pimps.
Let's also consider for a moment, that pimps do NOT just "protect" prostitutes. Most often they fail to protect them. More often they force them to work, beat them if they don't or if they don't bring in enough money and pose as much of a threat if not more of one to prostitutes than violent johns. Then, they take almost all the money the prostitute makes, and if she is lucky, he leaves her with some tiny portion of her own earnings.
So, if the cops don't work, then try one of the 2 private solutions mentioned as a method of security for these women. That is totally legit. But saying because cops are n0ot a perfect solution for all every single time nono we must have pimps who beat these women too and take all their money as a mechanism to protect them.... That isn't protection.
"Summary: I believe that you think the police is that entity you can always rely on and there is no need to take matters in your own hand, unfortunately my experience has proven the police not only to be incompetent, but corrupt and racist as well. I am a mathematician, well spoken, not aggressive and in no ways in a surrounding that could justify any of the things I have experienced with the police, so I guess all I have to say about the police argument is the following:"
The police ARE SUPPOSED to be an entity ALL can depend on. I am aware that unfortunately that functionally it doesn't always work out that way. I marched with BLM, donate money to that cause regularly. So watch who you judge on this issue. Right now, I am busy, on top of my farming, trying to help a friend find and pay for a good discrimination lawyer to take on a major university. I don't expect a damn thing out of it. I do it, because racism makes my stomach turn and because she asked for help. She is a biology student. I never said you were aggressive. So please don't pretend that I did. I have seen white dudes act like assholes to the cops and I was shocked by their restraint. I have seen african americans, calm polite and hands where cops can see them get assaulted. Back in my uni days, I watched a drunk white guy harass some poor african american man and his little girl. I watched that poor man make so much effort to get away from that white guy and to stay calm. Then the white guy invaded his little girl's personal space, he snapped just as I would have. He hit the drunk in the face. Drunk white guy called the police. Police asked me what I saw. I told them I watched a white guy soooo drunk that he punched himself in the face. No one hit him. And when the cop looked at me dubiously I said to him if you keep pressing this I am gonna tell you *I* hit him cuz I should have. That poor guy with the little girl was so scared..... I felt so bad for him. I watched a man have his neck kneeled on. I cried for his family. I cried for him. I saw numerous people of color shot on the news due to no knock warrants and police errors and other assorted cop bullshit. These things are NOT ok. That said, we have a system, one we need to do a hell of a lot more to fix because you are right, there is no equity in it and some folks are getting murdered and otherwise abused and mistreated by the system. But it remains the system we have. Just as often, it gets it right and does the right thing. Not all cops are racists. Though, enough are. We should really incentivize getting them out of the field.
1) I apologize for the statement about "ignorance". It was absolutely unjustified. Mea maxima culpa
2) I never said or framed you as having perceived me as aggressive, but rather was I trying to explain the cases I used as an example and I was giving a general description of my character to emphasis that the police behaviour was in no way justified.
3) The examples I gave were not meant to deviate from the main topic, but rather was I trying to point out that if I ( for example) can not rely on the police - In my case it just so happens that my skin colour is the main reason I do not trust them the slightest bit - I completely understand any prostitute who doesn`t either, as that is a field which is(?) pruned to more stigma prejudice and so on.
4) I misread your last statement. Somehow I read "None should sell their body for money", which is completely different from what you said originally. That being said, I was discussing the topic under the assumption of no exploitation and so on, as our moral compasses in such cases are probably all aligned. I was thinking about prostitution solely as a business concept.
5) In the last two sentences, you state that it is the system we have. Yes it is, but everybody is an individual first before they are a citizen. You are not bound to whatever system we make up. We make up systems for the common good, but when a system is unjust or inhuman, you have to get creative for your individual sake. That being said and talking about prostitution solely as a business concept, I completely understand seeking protection elsewhere.
Yes. You see my opinion, and what SHOULD hold true for all mankind. You are NOT wrong that it doesn't always hold true and something is fucking wrong when it doesn't. I also believe I said something too that you completely ignored about prostitutes hiring a bodyguard. Or operating collectively renting private spaces somewhere and I would assume there would be several bouncers on facility private employ to deal with the kinds of icky who would mistreat women. Which would be a private solution not involving pimps.
As already mentioned above, I wasn`t talking about the things that go wrong in that field of work(?), as that has been sufficiently covered in previous posts and we can all easily agree on those.
6) I might not be familiar with the structure of such a business, but I always assumed the pimp was responsible for providing protection, even if that meant the physical execution thereof is delegated to the, as you put it, Bodyguard. isn`t the pimp the owner of the brothel?
Let's also consider for a moment, that pimps do NOT just "protect" prostitutes. Most often they fail to protect them. More often they force them to work, beat them if they don't or if they don't bring in enough money and pose as much of a threat if not more of one to prostitutes than violent johns. Then, they take almost all the money the prostitute makes, and if she is lucky, he leaves her with some tiny portion of her own earnings.
7) What we are ignoring here is there aren`t only such cases. During my stay in Austria a few years ago, I got to know a guy who regularly had visits from a domina, as he enjoyed being treated like ****. She could choose her customers and earned amounts even I, who is relatively well paid, can only dream of. I know this because after talking with him about this, I watched several interviews with escorts and dominas from different EU countries. I understand that this are not the centre of the Bell curve, but neither are the cases you describe in such countries (In theory). A pimp/bodyguard or however we call them is always nearby, so at least we have the argument of latency. Next I think the client knowing that there is probably a giant somewhere around the corner just waiting to step in, if he misbehaves is more of a deterrent than the police, as he is probably less bound to the law.
I imagine that in countries were prostitution is legalized, you will find less of the cases you described, as the regulatory organs should have measures to control and identify such cases, the same way a restaurant is regularly checked by some regulatory instance. As I already mentioned in a previous post, the city of Bucharest is literally one big brothel. And in Rumania prostitution is illegal. I think you will find way more abuse in Bucharest than for example in Amsterdam ( assumption ). The following could just be the result of a naiv situational awareness, but during my stay in Bucharest I went to a bar (at least it looked like one). Quelle surprise, it was a brothel, as I later found out. After finding out, It didn't bother me, as the prostitutes and the bodyguard weren't bothering me. We had normal conversation and they gave me tips about cities close by and were to go ski. During the entire time, I noticed no tension between the prostitutes and the bodyguard. the were having normal conversations and fooling around even with me being there. it didn't seem like anyone felt pressured to get money out of my pocket. One girl did ask if I wanted her "service", which I deniied and that was the end of it. Tghe tonality of the conversations we had even after refusing didn`t change.
8) Yes there are of course those that do not have a conventional business relationship with the prostitute. There are also those involved in human trafficking, but that is a different topic and has nothing to do with the necessity or lack thereof of a pimp in the business in general.
So, if the cops don't work, then try one of the 2 private solutions mentioned as a method of security for these women. That is totally legit. But saying because cops are n0ot a perfect solution for all every single time nono we must have pimps who beat these women too and take all their money as a mechanism to protect them.... That isn't protection.
I have no way of proving this, but my intuition is that in cities such as beforementioned Amsterdam the cases of abuse you are referring to are a small fraction. I think once one starts to think of this as a business, one might understand that there are probably a bunch of prostitutes, escorts, dominas and whatnot out there that treat it in just the same manner. And as we all know, a happy employee is a more productive employee. I am not disregarding the cases you are talking about, but only arguing in the context of the legality of prostitution, if that makes sense.
It is illegal in Serbia, yet exist in practice, like anywhere else. What really annoys me more than prostitution is "gold digging", or sponsorship type of relationship. Like people in "regular, romantic" relationships, which basically is prostitution with socially acceptable background story. With prostitution its at least what it is.
It is illegal in Serbia, yet exist in practice, like anywhere else. What really annoys me more than prostitution is "gold digging", or sponsorship type of relationship. Like people in "regular, romantic" relationships, which basically is prostitution with socially acceptable background story. With prostitution its at least what it is.
Im totally agree 💯