🙏 Life after death? ✨

Again, your response shows clear misunderstanding of what I was sharing, notably on science and evolution, so I will just quickly reply:

As for the "simple rules" ‐ I have a question for you: what do you believe a "rule" is?

I mentionned example with the Theory of Evolution and Chaotic Theory. Football sounds like a rather shaky analogy. I also will repeat: you are blending "how" and "why" here again.

Yes, and because your faith, belief and theories regarding this follow modern darwinianism, the logical and reasonable answer I offer (A Creator) will likely not be considered.

This is the most revealing sentence I think. It shows that you have completely put aside what I explicited and that you have a bias on evolution. Darwin himself mentioned, very fairly, that the theory of Evolution and a Creator are not mutually exclusive; it just isn't needed to reflects the evolution of life. I won't blame anybody on that or misunderstanding the mechanisms of Evolution though, for apparently this is not intuitive (and what students are taught in middle/high school i really poor).

Again, how and why.

Oh no, just one. If an intelligent entity created the universe, it easily explains all the impossibly improbable steps to our development along the way. Rather than everything coming from nothing, an Intelligent Creator designed it. Instead of miraculously developing over billions of years from a tadpole ‐ that Creator made us from dirt (and scientists discovered we are in fact made of dirt!).

2 things;
- No, using a miracle to explain other so called miracles is not just 1

- You are caricaturing science when it doesn't go your way and then trying to use it to support your point. Please, be consistent with other people.

Also no, no consensus on how or why life appeared in science...

Don't you ever look at your life and wonder why you are living? Why you have a heart? One of the biggest issues I have with atheism is the lack of moral responsibility that entails. If we are just blobs of evolved soup, why should we care if someone is stabbed? If truth is relative, I could live life my way, you live life yours. But no, God gave us a heart, a working mind, a conscience.

Irrelevant and caricatural. This doesn't look like simple misunderstanding anymore...

God's intervention is unnecessary as He has put the laws in place already, including the moral law written on our hearts.

You preach interventionism through Design... Again, be consistent for what you describe was exactly the point I was mentioning in my initial post : setting the initial conditions at the begining => development with no need for intervention.

God cannot lie

People can.

Love the nerding out! And yes, this is part of the many laws God has put into effect. These physical and chemical reactions you describe are simply observations of a process, not an origin, motivating force, or reason for them.

One very last time; How and Why are different questions to respond for which there is a need to be a differentiation. I clearly separated them from post 1.


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To end that more properly on my side:

You are curious it seems, it's good, but it feels like the curiosity has found one intuitive answer and doesn't expand to other explanations, but rather seeks to confirm them... That said, my point was to separate clearly 2 things too:

You have metaphysical questions, not scientific ones, hence your questions "why life", "why universe", "why complexity" should stay apart from science and not summon it since it tries to answer "how life (evolves, appears eventually for example)" , "how universe/galaxies form", "how complexity". Science does NOT address purpose; hence my correction on DNA as a "code" being essentially a metaphore and not carrying hidden meaning like a crypted book (it "simply" follows biochemichal rules, which is already a lot).

Those 2 types of questions are fundamentally differents. Although I oversimplified by saying why vs how questions; it's the ultimate purpose thhat is targeted here.

My first question on "how about a God" was meant to explore Creation with a different perspective. Since you like citing great philosopher and scientists, some of them also have pushed further away the idea of God : Marcus Aurelius like many Stoicians blend it with Nature, Spinoza seems to do the same; and Laplace is essentially an hardcore determinist and, to some extent, even Newton you mentionned earlier could be used to justify an idea of God as I described (that's why I called to be cautious with that too).

Yes, we are in agreement that "how" and "why" are different questions (though answering both requires a reasonable and rational mind). We also agree on evolutionary theory and God not being mutually exclusive ‐ I was simply sharing my take on it.

I do believe however, that it is a mistake to separate science and faith, as faith is a response to evidence ‐ essential to science (one must trust in rational intelligence to even make a scientific inquiry). The Bible says what many of the pioneers of modern science believed: that nature itself is evidence of God.

"For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse" ‐ Romans 1:20

Thoughts and prayers🤗

Follower of Christ, you don't seem to realize how ridiculous your arguments are. For you, the Bible is the primary scientific reference. When I point out that a passage in the Bible is an error, it's not out of hatred for believers; it's simply to help people like you understand that they are misled by false beliefs stemming from old Stone Age legends that have no connection whatsoever with science. I am still astounded by the right Christians give themselves to have a monopoly on love, knowledge, common sense, and good morals. In reality, as soon as Christianity became the state religion of the Roman Empire, the persecuted immediately became the persecutors. Some Popes were among the worst debauchees and criminals; for centuries afterward, torture and massacres in the name of the God of love never ceased. Conversions to Christianity were rarely achieved through kind words but rather through terror. Let me return to a few scientific truths. I don't see, as you claim, how scientists can agree that the first man was made by God from earth. Since earth is often composed primarily of clay, which itself is a compound of silica and aluminum, it's strange that these two elements are so scarce in the human body when, according to you, they are the main constituents of the human body. You'll have to show me the article concerning Sox9. According to all the research I've done, it is in no way a messenger cell with unique regenerative properties. It is rather a gene located on chromosome 17 involved in the development of the sex organs and the skeleton. Therefore, it has nothing to do with organ regeneration. Furthermore, I don't see why they would be located specifically in the rib bones. The bonobo chimpanzee shares 98.79% of its genes with humans, making it our closest cousin. Our common ancestor with this primate existed between seven and ten million years ago. That a single couple can produce several billion individuals is mathematically possible, provided the necessary resources are available, but with such high levels of inbreeding, the number of individuals with disabilities must be very high; this, too, is a scientific reality. The theory of evolution is an idea that seems to horrify you, yet no scientist would now deny this principle. In fact, it would be more accurate to say "the law of evolution," since it has always been proven true. One could even argue that it is divine; it is what allowed humanity to exist, along with all other living species, of course. If God had created humankind all at once, why are these hominid fossils found at the bottom of caves or in geological strata? Why would God have created dinosaurs only to make them suddenly disappear 66 million years ago? Did he realize that this species of animal was a mistake and that they needed to be eliminated? I suspect that accepting the theory of evolution would mean you would start to doubt and lose your composure. You prefer to say silly things that reassure you. People who think the least are often the least unhappy, and nobody wants to be unhappy.

May I add that many Christians don't believe in dinosaurs either, because they are not mentioned in the bible............ Science seems to scare them

false beliefs stemming from old Stone Age legends that have no connection whatsoever with science.

It does have, somewhat, connection to science since it's human curiosity that brought many beliefs to be built; the same curiosity that, later, sciences sometimes confirm or not.

I am still astounded by the right Christians give themselves to have a monopoly on love, knowledge, common sense, and good morals.

That's your perspective and I would very much say your own faith. I have seen the same behaviour among atheists, christians, muslims... Almost any groups wants to believe they are the parangon of virtue and detain the truth.

In reality, as soon as Christianity became the state religion of the Roman Empire, the persecuted immediately became the persecutors. Some Popes were among the worst debauchees and criminals; for centuries afterward, torture and massacres in the name of the God of love never ceased. Conversions to Christianity were rarely achieved through kind words but rather through terror.

I don't think this part truly belongs. I might be wrong, but I highly doubt that @Follower-of-Christ is Catholic, and Protestantism became popular partly because of the rampant corruption back then... That's kind of unfair to blame another religion than Catholicism for that. There are also matter to discuss your statement on conversion through terror.

Let me return to a few scientific truths. I don't see, as you claim, how scientists can agree that the first man was made by God from earth. Since earth is often composed primarily of clay, which itself is a compound of silica and aluminum, it's strange that these two elements are so scarce in the human body when, according to you, they are the main constituents of the human body. You'll have to show me the article concerning Sox9.

Indeed, I've yet to see the confirmation of such claim in a biology paper. We don't have any consensus on the origin of life at the moment. I would take all those biblical claims metaphorically rather than literally.

The rest of your message would benefit some reframing because it's all blended and confusing... but for some sentences:

The bonobo chimpanzee shares 98.79% of its genes with humans, making it our closest cousin. Our common ancestor with this primate existed between seven and ten million years ago.

Bonobos and chimpanzees are 2 distinct species. The shared amount of DNA is something I would avoid in biology... It's broadly true, but you could also say 99% and still be correct - it depends on what you compare. You could also say that humans and bananas share 50-60% of their DNA, but overall, the structure and regulation of those genes differ quite a bit.
I see your point for the common ancestry though, and you are "nice" to expand it to 10 millions years ago from what I know.

A very nice website/tool to visualize all of those common ancestors has been developed by the University of Lyon. I would suggest everyone to give it a look and play with it a little; https://lifemap.cnrs.fr/

That a single couple can produce several billion individuals is mathematically possible, provided the necessary resources are available, but with such high levels of inbreeding, the number of individuals with disabilities must be very high;this, too, is a scientific reality

Not necessarily. Human history seems to have been through some bottlenecks and we are still surprisingly fine. There were indeed some famous cases with high inbreeding that led to some stranges features (if I remember well, there used to be a village in the US with.. blue people), but generally, life finds its path. Similarly, the recovery of wolves in Scandinavia from 2-3 individuals show how resilient reproduction can be, although fresh blood has been cleaned the rotten genes a lot too.
Again though, I would take the Adam & Eve as a nice metaphore. In biology, there seems to exist such individuals, but they didn't live together nor during the same era... and things are a bit more complicated.

The theory of evolution is an idea that seems to horrify you, yet no scientist would now deny this principle. In fact, it would be more accurate to say "the law of evolution," since it has always been proven true.

Ok, that's the part that truly interested me.
A theory in science is nothing like in everyday use. It's not an hypothesis or something one can just dismiss randomly. It is backed by observations, experiments, evidences of all sort. As for Darwinism specifically, it is,in fact, one of the most resilient theory in sciences. There are still many things to discuss about it - among the details - but the general principle is very hard to question and supported by many disciplines.

A Law, in science, is a little bit different and is more about describing patterns for example; likely with mathematical tools. For example, Mendel's law is about describing patterns in inheritance, and it is a core part of neo-darwinism.

To be short; It's not just an "idea", or an hypothesis, neither a principle; it is a very firmly and rigorously supported framework to explain how life changes over time.

Why would God have created dinosaurs only to make them suddenly disappear 66 million years ago? Did he realize that this species of animal was a mistake and that they needed to be eliminated?

I suspect that accepting the theory of evolution would mean you would start to doubt and lose your composure. You prefer to say silly things that reassure you. People who think the least are often the least unhappy, and nobody wants to be unhappy.

One has to be fair here. The theory of Evolution seems to be counter intuitive and many people, including its supporters in daily life and some biology students have misconceptions about its mechanisms. I personally find it displeasant and disheartening, but it's difficult to make it complete, exempt of misconceptions and reasonably short to learn; so naturally, some people come to question some points and find it to be "just a theory".

@Lianshen, I was surprised to be agreeing with a lot of what you said! But I will address a couple things for @anil's sake (and because I greatly enjoy discussions like these☺).

When I point out that a passage in the Bible is an error, it's not out of hatred for believers; it's simply to help people like you understand that they are misled by false beliefs stemming from old Stone Age legends that have no connection whatsoever with science.

No worries! And I honestly don't think those rebelling against God necessarily have to hate Christians ‐ it can also just as likely be disdain directed at their idea of a Creator. The Bible speaks of such a leading away:

"Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness." ‐ 2 Peter 3:16
(I recommend reading all of 2 Peter 3 for poignant prophesy)
Something to keep in mind ‐ the age of a Truth does not make it any less True♥

I don't see, as you claim, how scientists can agree that the first man was made by God from earth.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/150128-big-bang-universe-supernova-astrophysics-health-space-ngbooktalk

And another with devout evolutionists explaining (which you may appreciate).

Therefore, it has nothing to do with organ regeneration. Furthermore, I don't see why they would be located specifically in the rib bones.

My brother from another mother I was talking ʙᴏɴᴇs, not organs🤣 but yes, many who deny the existence of a Creator experience the same confusion.

Here's the article since both of you guys are interested (wow, didn't catch it before, apparently they discovered this in my hometown): https://elifesciences.org/articles/40715

Fun fact: the rib is the only bone in our body that can regrow after losing up to 8 inches!

"..and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman..." ‐ Genesis 2:21-22

The above verses often get all the attention, but I love the one right after: "Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man."
And what do you know, our word for "woman" originates from the Old English "wifman", which literally meant "woman‐man"😇

The theory of evolution is an idea that seems to horrify you

What makes you say that? Does the thought of a Creator horrify you because you're doing things you know are morally wrong?

If God had created humankind all at once, why are these hominid fossils found at the bottom of caves or in geological strata? Why would God have created dinosaurs only to make them suddenly disappear 66 million years ago? Did he realize that this species of animal was a mistake and that they needed to be eliminated?

I have a better question: what happens when someone dies? And to that, I say, they are buried and become fossils.

Answering the next two while adding to @Lianshen's hilarious meme (bye‐bye Neander‐talls!):

"There were giants in the earth in those days....GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.....The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence....And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth." ‐ Genesis 6:4‐13

I suspect that accepting the theory of evolution would mean you would start to doubt and lose your composure.

Not really! Many Christians believe evolution supports a Creator. Would accepting Jesus Christ mean you would start to doubt?

May the love of the Savior be felt ever closer in your life. Amen.

I haven't read everything, I have only ran through some posts. I would like to stay away from trash talk, false and misunderstood acclaims about science, Bible, Christianity, atheism and everything else you blended in here (just an opinion). All I want to say that science is great and I love it but it still has it own limitations. Science can confirm that certain phenomena were reported and observed but it still can't explain how. For example, how some bodies remaint perfectly preserved decades and even centuries after death despite being buried in a regular way and how some people miraculously recovered from diseases when doctors gave them odds which were close to zero. There is also a concept called Planck time - a scale where our current physical theories are expected to break down. That's a reminder thst our models have boundaries

@Korisnik, it's alright! People have their beliefs and religions, and if we have a silly opinion, it is far better to share it than to be caught up in the echo chambers of our mind😊

"The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise." ‐ Proverbs 12:15

Hellooo everybody!! 🙋‍♀️ In the forum Guessing things i asked if anybody maybe had a question for the list. And i think a really good question was asked by @Follower-of-Christ:

➡️ Do you think there is life after death? Why, or why not? Bonus critical thinking challenge: Give the reasons/evidences you trust your belief over others.

I thought maybe it is nicer to have a separate forum about the question instead that it is ONLY in the list of the other forum. ⭐🌈🌞🏆 I hope that maybe people who like to comment do so below and tell what they think and that everybody is respectful even if you dont agree or think differently about the question and the answer. Thank you very much anybody who posts what they think and believe!!! 🤗🥰🥰

I think that when you die it is not your ultimate End and you are gone forever because you cannot destroy energy you can only change its form.

so i think u still exist atleast but Idk how

Follower of Christ, I didn't say that the theory of evolution horrifies me, but that it horrifies you. Genesis and the theory of evolution are two completely contradictory things. If one is true, the other is necessarily false. Many facts have refuted Genesis, and many others have confirmed the theory of evolution. Logically, Genesis is therefore false, and with it, probably the entire Bible. A Christian who believes in the theory of evolution and in Genesis is lying to himself; you can't believe something and its opposite. That's why the theory must surely create a feeling of horror in you. When I talk about fossils, I'm not asking how these remains got to us, but rather what their discovery implies. Among the fossils, we have found skeletons of humans with characteristics not entirely identical to modern humans. Neanderthals occupied Europe and Asia from 430,000 to 40,000 years ago. According to you, it was the flood that wiped them out? Were Neanderthals also children of Adam and Eve? It's surprising that you mention this flood story, which clearly demonstrates the cruelty of your God of love. He's going to engulf all of humanity and all the animals to create a new life from the descendants of Noah and a few pairs of animals. The aftermath will show him he was wrong because, some time later, humanity will fall back into its old ways. This story doesn't hold water; you have to be mentally manipulated to believe it. What does it mean to accept Jesus Christ? I'm not going to deny that he existed historically, but his miracles and resurrection are far from credible. Calling him both God and man at the same time is even more absurd. He may have preached love between humans in the name of a God he was supposed to represent, a God who was never very loving toward his creatures. You're free to believe absurd legends if it makes you a better and happier person. For my part, I try to think based on real facts, or at least highly probable ones. I know it's not very fun.

I am also a Christian and I believe both in scientific explanation of evolution and in God and there is nothing insane in it. If we believe that God is omnipotent I don't see why it's absurd to believe He can be both a man and a God. But I think it's the other topic. I have already answered the original question in my previous post.

Follower of Christ, I didn't say that the theory of evolution horrifies me, but that it horrifies you. Genesis and the theory of evolution are two completely contradictory things. If one is true, the other is necessarily false. Many facts have refuted Genesis, and many others have confirmed the theory of evolution. Logically, Genesis is therefore false, and with it, probably the entire Bible. A Christian who believes in the theory of evolution and in Genesis is lying to himself; you can't believe something and its opposite.

Your comment is at very least 30 years outdated. There is a long standing tradition in Christianism consisting in not reading the Genesis as a scientific textbook, but as a theological narrative. Said differently, the Genesis is not read in a way that explains the evolution of life/biology through mechanisms, but in a way that gives a theological truth about Creation, the origin of life and specifically souls/humans, what a person is... through symbolism and literarism. Note that those are ultimate explanations.

If this is respected, and if Evolution is not read with a materialistic view in which spirit/mind is reduced as a collateral effect for instance (this is a philosophical stance, not a scientific one), then both the theory of Evolution and religion are not incompatible.

This is, said a bit differently, what John Paul II explained in 1996 (thus 30 years ago), making a clear distinction between religion and science while claiming that the theories of Evolution are "more than a hypothesis".

I invite you to read his speech, for it simply is contradicting your whole claim. You could find it on this link from Hominide.com, a science-mediation website of relatively good quality with plethora of article written by researchers.

Would you tell here that the former pope, and Saint for Catholics, was not believing in Genesis?

I'm a little disappointed that Follower-of-Christ hasn't responded. It's certainly not easy to find logical explanations for absurd dogmas. I'm willing to believe that my comments are outdated, but for now, there's no clear answer, and the issue remains relevant. The Church, in general, has been forced to adapt to the revelations made by scientific discoveries; otherwise, it would certainly be seen as a backward organization with no reason to exist. Initially, when Darwin finally dared to publish his research, the Church loudly denounced the abomination of this diabolical idea of ​​evolution, which places humans on the same level as other living species on the planet. In other times, such statements would have earned the condemnation of being burned alive at the stake in a public square, which would have discouraged people from asking questions, but unfortunately for the Church, those days were over. How can we accept any complementarity between two opposing versions of the creation of the world? On one hand, instantaneous genesis with a perfect world; on the other, slow evolution over billions of years. It takes considerable mental gymnastics to reconcile the two. I think all believers are in denial and continue to believe because thinking that an omnipotent and benevolent being watches over them, rewarding the virtuous and punishing the wicked, is reassuring in the face of life's vicissitudes. John Paul II may have said that evolution is more than a hypothesis, but he didn't go so far as to say it's a truth. Maintaining ambiguity on this subject is the only strategy that allows the Catholic Church and religions in general to endure. If this former Pope didn't believe in Genesis, did he believe in the rest of the Old Testament, where various absurdities and horrors are part of the word of God? If we accept the concept of evolution, the major tenets of Christian philosophy, such as "original sin," become a baseless myth. This implies that the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross was pointless. Furthermore, I have never understood how his death saved anyone.

Anil, atheism is probably one of the most rational viewpoint one can hold, but anticlericalism can also turns into a dogma and, in your belief, you are ommiting a lot of details.

You are once again assuming that the Church and believers take the Bible for a scientific textbook, while it's very often not the case. That the Church didn't promote scientific research itself, in desire to find God and confirmation of their beliefs.
Similarly, you claim that scientists would get burn at the stake solely because their research went against the Bible. I'm not sure this happened even during the strongest moment of the inquisition... Gelileo for example was initially "friend" with the pope, got a lot of support from the Church, and his condemnation had more to do with political game than heliocentrism properly speaking - the intial refusal for his work being 'I think it's not supported enough" (I caricature, but I won't make that novel longer).

It's forgetting that many scientists were supported by the Church or directly emerged from the Clergy; again, Catholicism never has been "just" this dark anti-knowledge institution described nowadays, without any nuance. It sure has been reluctant to some discoveries and changes, but it also has promoted many research like I just said, saved some others etc. The reality is much more nuanced than a plain " Church = dark age".


On Darwin specifically, you are vastly exaggerating what happened. Darwin was worried about controversy, but a lot of delays can also be blamed on Darwin being a perfectionnist turtle.
It seems particularly unfair to say that "The Church" labeled his work as "abomination" or "diabolical". The "Church" (Vatican) never condemned publicly the Theory of Evolution, and if some religious leaders firmly opposed it, some others accepted it quickly when faced with the arguments and observations provided by Darwin. That's aprticularly the case in Britain, where the Anglican Church was mixed...

Again, a good bunch of the scientific community back then also belonged to the Clergy. Most often, opponent actually engaged in honest and serious discussion with Darwin. A very famous opponent to Darwin until his death is actually Jean Henri Fabre, an eminent enthomologist who, despite being religious, yes, wasn't a member of the clergy himself (and interestingly, that didn't prevetn Darwin and Fabre from becoming friends).


I also have to bring another correction: The work of Darwin never placed Humans and other species at the same level. It stated that we had a common ancestor; but not that humans were morally equals to other species. Darwin himself had ideas you would find very questionable about some ethnicities (my guy, even him can't be always right)...

How can we accept any complementarity between two opposing versions of the creation of the world? On one hand, instantaneous genesis with a perfect world; on the other, slow evolution over billions of years.

I already said that in my previous post; Genesis and Evolution are not incompatible and Darwin himself believed that both are perfectly fine together. Evolution is how life changes over time, not about its origins. Again, it depends on your reading of the Bible, but yours is only allowing a literal view of it, which is not the most common view in Christianism nowadays.

I would also add a small note: Evolution is not always slow and can potentially get really fast over a few thousand years. There are a few details and models, hypotheses... ongoing in the field in this regard, the one I mentionned here being the "punctuated equilibrium" model.

John Paul II may have said that evolution is more than a hypothesis, but he didn't go so far as to say it's a truth. Maintaining ambiguity on this subject is the only strategy that allows the Catholic Church and religions in general to endure.

I believe you are mistaken here. What is implied in John Paul II speech is that Evolution is a scientific theory; hence the best model to explain what we observe in absence of something better. His "better than hypothesis", alongside with the rest of his speech, shows clearly his understanding of the scientific vocabulary.

If this former Pope didn't believe in Genesis, did he believe in the rest of the Old Testament, where various absurdities and horrors are part of the word of God?

Circling... but it seems I got my response. If the Pope admits Evolution, then, in your mind, he can't believe in Genesis despite being the Pope.

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It looks like it's impossible for you to fathom that religious are not necessarily reading the Bible in a literal way. Just because you have a literal reading of a text doesn't mean everyone has to be like you, Anil, and this is a dogmatic view too.

There are still some oversimplifications I made, but eh... I guess it's good enough and I suppose i should stop here or it will be repetitive

Thank u very much everybody who is posting in this forum!! 🙏❤️🙏 I have hesitated a lot because normally if i make a forum i try to react a lot and write back if somebody writes but this time i am not really sure each time what i should write back. And also i dont want to maybe make mistakes if i maybe misunderstand some of the things and that maybe it starts an argument. And with a LOTTT im not sure what i should write back or think about it yet so that is why.

But i am really thankful a lot to everybody who makes it super interesting and that everybody can say what they want in a nice way and everybody respects each other. 😊🥰

And i dont mean to interrupt what everybody above writes about!! Sorry if it disturbs!!!! 🙄🙄😬

When people read Bible as an ordinary book then misunderstandings happen. When reading Bible, the reader should think about historical context (2000 years ago people expressed themselves much differently than today), the languages used by Jesus and by Bible (very complex and with a lot of changes because of a timespan of 2 millenium). For example, Jesus spoke Aramaic, and languages which are used in Bible are Hebrew and Greek. How many of you are familiar with these languages? A lot of people aren't even familiar with Latin, the language of Vulgata version. Also, Bible without proper studying can't be understood properly - there is a special study in Rome completelly dedicated to the Bible. The Bible should not be taken literally and it's the stand which Catholic Church holds and has held through the history. Taking the Bible literally is a fideism which is a form of fanatism.

An example for all of this: in Bible it is written that Eve is created from Adam's rib. Despite explicitly stating it was a rib, they were talking about a heart. Why? Because ancient Hebrew medicine was primitive and they didn't open the bodies. They felt and understood that something is moving under the skin and they tought it was the rib, but it was a heart. Just one example how historical differences are very large in 2000 year interval. Another example is this: in Bible it's not written that driving 200 km/h through populated place is a sin. Does that mean it isn't a sin? Of course not - at the time Bible was written, the cars didn't exist.

Speaking about evolution and science, do you know who is the author of the Big Bang Theory (actual theory, not the tv show)? His name is Georges Lemaitre. Oh no, he was a Christian 😱! Oh no, he was a Catholic😱! Oh no, he was a priest😱! How is that even possible?????

A few other scientists who were Christians:

Antonio Volta - he prayed the Rosary often

Andre Marie Ampere

Gregor Mendel - oh no, another scientist who was also a priest 😱

Ruđer Bošković - oh no, another priest among scientists 😱

Max Planck - his first wife and 4 of his 5 children have died before him and he was still believeing in God regardless of those tragedies. Something to think about.

Louis Pasteur - when his student asked him how he can believe in God after so much thinking, his response was: ' a lot of thinking is the reason why I believe in God' (or something like that, I am just a stupid Catholic and I don't know the exact translation nor I care, you get the point of the quote)

James Clerk Maxwell - his quote: 'I have looked into the most philosophical systems and have found none that will not work without God.'

All of these scientists were top experts. Something to think about.

Lianshen, I see that you're following in the footsteps of modern Christians who no longer see any incompatibility between Genesis and science. It's surely a way for you to have a clear conscience. In the Bible, there are certainly texts that can be taken literally; they are full of good advice, love, and common sense. Others require interpretation to be acceptable, and still others that no priest would ever dare read during a ceremony because of their appalling stupidity or cruelty. A dogma is a point of doctrine considered a fundamental and indisputable truth. For my part, my only dogmas are proven scientific truths, which isn't the case in religions where dubious claims must be considered true and indisputable under penalty of excommunication or worse. The so-called original sin is one such example. Regarding Galileo, you're misinformed. He escaped being burned at the stake because he recanted his discoveries; however, Giordano Bruno did indeed perish, burned alive for maintaining his ideas despite torture. Yes, Darwin waited a long time to publish his discoveries. He had received a religious education and was torn between his conclusions and the teachings he had been given. He was fully aware of the consequences of this revolutionary assertion for the time. I don't deny that the theory of evolution can be used to promote racist ideas, but I'm simply stating the facts: To obtain humans, a ruthless selection process was necessary, allowing only the fittest to survive and reproduce. We are the result of this process. If God exists, perhaps it's because he wanted it to be this way, but in that case, God might not be so good after all.

Like I said, any further comment would only consist in repeating myself in hope it gets read with good will and understood. I will just end this by saying that "my only dogma are provent scientific truths" say enough things here. Thankfully, you are not a scientist or that would be concerning...

@Yue_ @Stella1004 I don't think you have to be sorry or feel any restraint sharing your opinion. Most of us here are just monkeys throwing random words. We will never rewrite Hamlet.
I think it was, on the contrary,interesting to see your viewpoint rooted in personal experience and changing with life events rather than religion or philosophical thoughts.