I remember an Italian government made up of more than twenty parties, even very small ones. A terrifying thing. I no longer recognize myself in any of the parties that exist in Italy. Everyone scares me. France is not a small country like Belgium. France needs a government. However, a government made up of very different parties (with very different ideas) is weak and unstable and does not last long.
Well in France or Italy at least we have a variety of parties, there is always one that is closer to your values that is worth fighting with. In many countries there are only 2 or even just 1 party. ๐ตโ๐ซ๏ธ
When people say "I don't feel represented by any of the 461128780 parties available" I just want to say stop being a snob. ๐
Sometimes I wonder if splitting areas into different political systems wouldn't be the answer: you just move wherever you belong. I know it's a naive solution, but oh well.
Etienne and Pennarossa there is also a different solution. So we had a class in my school about the new Dutch cabinet and everybody must make together parties that you would vote for. And we had only one class to make political agreement about 5 important topics, but you must have majority. We did that in one class and not like in weeks or months!!
So maybe if adults only fight about it and they dont make the agreement, we can do that easier and maybe better. ๐๐๐
Well in France or Italy at least we have a variety of parties, there is always one that is closer to your values that is worth fighting with. In many countries there are only 2 or even just 1 party. ๐ตโ๐ซ๏ธ
When people say "I don't feel represented by any of the 461128780 parties available" I just want to say stop being a snob. ๐
Sometimes I wonder if splitting areas into different political systems wouldn't be the answer: you just move wherever you belong. I know it's a naive solution, but oh well.
So I'm a snob! ๐๐ . I wouldn't like just one party but I don't see anyone I like ๐.
Etienne and Pennarossa there is also a different solution. So we had a class in my school about the new Dutch cabinet and everybody must make together parties that you would vote for. And we had only one class to make political agreement about 5 important topics, but you must have majority. We did that in one class and not like in weeks or months!!
So maybe if adults only fight about it and they dont make the agreement, we can do that easier and maybe better. ๐๐๐
Maybe the problem is this: Politicians are adults! And they are selfish and self-centered. Today a far-left party cannot govern with a center or right-wing party. They would spend all their time arguing or would have to continually look for a terrible compromise on any topic.
So I'm a snob! ๐๐ . I wouldn't like just one party but I don't see anyone I like ๐.
Well, people assume that they must find a political party in which they agree with 100% of the countless propositions. Of course you will never find your perfect match, unless you make your own. However, there has to be one where you will find yourself in agreement with more often than others, no?
Yue: I think you invented coalition governments ๐. If a single party doesn't have enough power to pass bills, they find allies to form a majority (the system may be slightly different across countries, but the principle should still hold for the most part)
Well, people assume that they must find a political party in which they agree with 100% of the countless propositions. Of course you will never find your perfect match, unless you make your own. However, there has to be one where you will find yourself in agreement with more often than others, no?
Yue: I think you invented coalition governments ๐. If a single party doesn't have enough power to pass bills, they find allies to form a majority (the system may be slightly different across countries, but the principle should still hold for the most part)
All the parties have disappointed me. All the Italian governments of the right and left have disappointed me. Nobody gives me positive emotions. Nobody can solve problems. Thanks Etienne for the interesting conversation and thanks also to Yueโบ๏ธ๐. I hope France can have a good government ๐
All the parties have disappointed me. All the Italian governments of the right and left have disappointed me. Nobody gives me positive emotions. Nobody can solve problems.
I don't know enough about Italian politics to have an opinion, but if this is how you feel then I understand your point of view
I don't know enough about Italian politics to have an opinion, but if this is how you feel then I understand your point of view
Italy was governed for almost 50 years by a party called Democrazia Cristiana and its allies. These parties have revived Italy from the tragedy of the Second World War. But they have accumulated an enormous public debt. Bad government, corruption, mafias of various types. In the nineties the old parties disappeared and two coalitions were born: centre-right and centre-left. Both governed Italy. We have also had non-political "technical governors". Unfortunately, no government can solve the problems. Economic crisis, unemployment, closures of many commercial activities, sell-off of state companies, terrible privatizations and liberalizations, unmanaged immigration, subservience to the European Union. There are areas of Italy, not only in the south but also in the north, where public health, roads and railways are in terrible conditions. Honest Italians pay a lot of taxes and yet all governments tolerate enormous tax evasion. Nothing is done to enhance art, culture, tourism. I cannot be satisfied with a soup without salt prepared by Mrs. Meloni or by the left-wing opposition.
Thanks for the explanation. Do you think it's because leaders face obstacles that prevent them from doing their job to the fullest? Or is it because they trick people into voting for them but they never plan on doing what it takes to apply what they said they were gonna do? Or maybe could it be that when they come into power they realize the job is just too hard yet no one is specifically to blame?
Truthfully I don't envy any of these political leaders. It seems there is much more to lose than to win
Thanks for the explanation. Do you think it's because leaders face obstacles that prevent them from doing their job to the fullest? Or is it because they trick people into voting for them but they never plan on doing what it takes to apply what they said they were gonna do? Or maybe could it be that when they come into power they realize the job is just too hard yet no one is specifically to blame?
Truthfully I don't envy any of these political leaders. It seems there is much more to lose than to win
Unfortunately the Italian political system is very complicated. Italy is a parliamentary republic. The procedures for passing laws are very complicated. The laws are incomprehensible and difficult to enforce. The justice system doesn't work. Politicians make promises they don't keep. Government coalitions are made up of parties that only defend their interests. The Meloni government wants to change the Constitution to give more power to the prime minister. I don't know if it will be better or worse. Politicians are often incompetent. Furthermore, European rules must be respected which are not always positive for Italy. Often we are not even able to spend the resources that come from Brussels or we throw them away on useless things. For any activity you want to undertake, you have to comply with a pack of incomprehensible procedures and pay taxes that will kill you. We are in the digital age but we must respect very difficult procedures as if we were in the Middle Ages. The bureaucracy is obtuse and intrusive. In short: this is a country that has been poorly governed for too long and a (non-armed) revolution should be made to change everything. For now there is still a bit of well-being because there are parents and grandparents and many people own a house. But tomorrow is very uncertain๐
Bureaucracy is a French word ๐๏ธ. Unfortunately the state is identical here. Maybe even worse? Who knows. The EU doesn't help, that's for sure. We like to shoot ourselves in the foot on a daily basis. Reminds me of this pretty accurate meme: https://images3.memedroid.com/images/UPLOADED363/665b1cdc40422.jpeg
Bureaucracy is a French word ๐๏ธ. Unfortunately the state is identical here. Maybe even worse? Who knows. The EU doesn't help, that's for sure. We like to shoot ourselves in the foot on a daily basis. Reminds me of this pretty accurate meme: https://images3.memedroid.com/images/UPLOADED363/665b1cdc40422.jpeg
๐คฃ๐คฃ๐คฃ๐คฃthese bottle caps are wonderful!!!
Macron has very well plaid and showed us that he s really a genius in politics : I mean when he decided to organize new,general elections in France, he told to french people that they had the choice between him or the chaos ! Before taking such a decision, he could only govern France with a relative majority to french parliament since,2 years and was obliged to praise french conservative party to support his policy, or at least not to vote against it and by the way, he was the target of all anger and frustration in my country !
The agreement during those last french general elections between Macron and the Union of french left parties prevented Marine Le Pen from reaching to power and now any political force in France ( Macron, Marine Le Pen, the Left and Conservatives ) can govern France alone which means that they can t do otherwise than looking each other for compromises so as to build a stable majority to french parliament and making a new government
Macron is a genius๐๐ณ๐ค??????Macron Is a very ambitious man and ambition often leads to ruin. Best wishes to France and thanks to those who participated in this forum. Sun โ๏ธin the French sky!
Macron has very well plaid and showed us that he s really a genius in politics : I mean when he decided to organize new,general elections in France, he told to french people that they had the choice between him or the chaos ! Before taking such a decision, he could only govern France with a relative majority to french parliament since,2 years and was obliged to praise french conservative party to support his policy, or at least not to vote against it and by the way, he was the target of all anger and frustration in my country !
The agreement during those last french general elections between Macron and the Union of french left parties prevented Marine Le Pen from reaching to power and now any political force in France ( Macron, Marine Le Pen, the Left and Conservatives ) can govern France alone which means that they can t do otherwise than looking each other for compromises so as to build a stable majority to french parliament and making a new government
There were left-ish coalitions before, there will be left-ish coalitions to come. Nothing new under the sun, the country is too polarized for any majority to come out on top regardless of what Macron does (or doesn't do). This is 101 Divide-and-conquer at play, nothing more, nothing less. The people losing again.
Macron is a genius๐๐ณ๐ค??????Macron Is a very ambitious man and ambition often leads to ruin. Best wishes to France and thanks to those who participated in this forum. Sun โ๏ธin the French sky!
