Imagine there's no country. Politics and governments

What do you think of Proudhon's ideas?

The idea of anarchism was to abolish the state, the government, authority, in other words, everything that they thought limited the overall development of the human race, and to think that this could be accomplished in a short time. The "repeal" here, unlike "natural death", is an active act.

The state, the government and the ruler are products that exist only in a class society. Whether the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie in a capitalist country or the dictatorship of the people's democracy (or the dictatorship of the proletariat) in a socialist country, they are all based on the fact that there are classes in this society and the contradictions between them are irreconcilable. Therefore, these things are actually the product of preventing the outbreak of conflict, and they come into being with the creation of class. Then, if we really want to make these things disappear, we can only step into a socialist society through revolution, carry out socialist construction through various means, make the class naturally die out, and finally enter the communist ideal society.

If all this is theoretical, we can also prove this point from historical facts. At the beginning of the human species, there were almost no surplus products due to low productivity, so primitive communism was practiced, and tribal members worked together and shared distribution. With the development of productivity, surplus products gradually appeared. For various reasons, such as prestige, violence, etc., tribal members began to voluntarily or involuntarily concentrate surplus products in the hands of leaders. At this time, classes emerged -- tribal leaders possessed surplus products, while other members had no surplus products and could only basically maintain a minimum life. Just to use tribes as an example, in fact, classes and countries will always exist as long as there is no great abundance of surplus products.

Lir_Elhan, I agree with you. I don't see any problem if some countries choose to have different political system, but not anarchism. It's some kind of illusion. Going back to the title, yes it's a dream-song. It's not a constitution of some kind. And probably, what Lennon meant in his song, just what he said - some day people will be more tolerant, less politically motivated, not so greedy etc. It's like growing up. We grow, we learn, we are striving to be better. And what we have now? Exactly what you wrote. People want to fight! People want to be mean! What happened to our world again? We didn't have enough killings? Do we need another war? It's crazy.

Thank you, Lir_Elhan. I feel like the cold war is coming on us again. And it's so stupid. What is more surprising to me, even Kissinger now looks like a "responsible" guy. He is trying to say - lets be a little bit careful here. But "liberals" are not listening to him. They want to be tough! And I agree with you, many young people here are much more responsible than adults. For me it's a deja vu of some kind. Are people capable to learn anything in political sense?

chaos and chaos. So let's abolish the state, who will protect the order?

eren-yougwolf, it's not about the state, it's about those politicians for whom we are voting. For example, AnnaLena Berbock. She is from the Green party! What she is doing? She is doing exactly opposite of what she suppose to do! Now some Germans have to use wood and coal to heat up their houses. Do you call it a green policy? Sometimes politicians have no logic at all. It's just scary to watch them what they are saying! They are so ignorant!

And again, John Lennon - Give peace a chance! It's his another song. When the war in Iraq started, Yoko Ono tried to say something about the peace, like some people were against the war in Vietnam. Many people said it's a different case. Was it different? I don't think so. Everybody knows now that all the talks about chemical weapons in Iraq were lies. What I am trying to say, politicians always lie. Almost all the time. So, it's not worth it to help them to do the dirty job.

sergey, you never criticize your own country from there alice
you have a country like in wonderland!

Yes, eren-youngwolf, I didn't do it. I didn't criticized Turkeysh government, Chinese government and many others. Do you think I should? Just for the sake of been fair? I don't know such cases. Can you tell me why should I criticize them? I'll do it if you tell me what Russian government did wrong?

Do you think that Chinese, Turkish, Russian government are perfect? No! They are not! But! Do we have to talk? Do we have to have some kind of diplomacy? Yes! We have to! Where is this organization? How we can talk with each other, if we don't have the common ground? Where do we start?

Yes, michael, I agree. Usually people are speaking about the things which they don't know much. Their mind is set by some other guys. They don't know what kind of guys. They are talking only about things that they have been told. It's the only wold they know. Why blame them?

Yes, eren-youngwolf, I didn't do it. I didn't criticized Turkeysh government, Chinese government and many others. Do you think I should? Just for the sake of been fair? I don't know such cases. Can you tell me why should I criticize them? I'll do it if you tell me what Russian government did wrong?

When he says nevver, it's because you never do it even when the topic is calls for looking at your country more critically. You do it very well withh "Europe" or the "West" even when it's not the topic, yet, when it comes to Russia, nobody hears you anymore except to say "muh, no, criticizing a country is not useful; Russia never does anything wrong".

Lianshen, it's natural, I am trying to talk about a subject. Some people here are trying to speak about Stalin, about Solschenizin, Afghanistan and other ancient topics even here. But do you realize that the topic is - Imagine there's no country?

What makes a country a country? You first have to define that. Nowadays if you want to be a country you have to have territory, sovereinity, borders and it has to be exepted by other countries. There are a lot of countries in this world that never ever have been accepted by other countries. But there was a time that there was no nationalism and no country, you lived on the kings land and did not feel any relationship between you and that land. Maybe the question is what happens to a country that is not ruled as a country? What will the people do? Well there will be chaos, because people need a leader, otherwise we get crazy.

In my opinion, without countries it would be a good world like a beautiful dream. Helping each others. In the end countries actually don’t exist, we invented them but the Earth is one ❤️

I would mention the John Lennon’s song - Imagine

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us, only sky
Imagine all the people
Livin' for today
Ah
Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion, too
Imagine all the people
Livin' life in peace
You
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one
Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world
You
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one
🙏🏻❤️

And again, John Lennon - Give peace a chance! It's his another song. When the war in Iraq started, Yoko Ono tried to say something about the peace, like some people were against the war in Vietnam. Many people said it's a different case. Was it different? I don't think so. Everybody knows now that all the talks about chemical weapons in Iraq were lies. What I am trying to say, politicians always lie. Almost all the time. So, it's not worth it to help them to do the dirty job.

Oh 😅 you mentioned Imagine before me 😅 I didn’t read before to share 😄

Thank you for posting the lyrics, Sara
For me it´s about unconditional love, peace
As long as there is judgement, someone who wants to be right ... 👎👎

We should believe michael: "Each individual should experience him/herself AND the universal basis (transcendence)"
.........................and Lennon: "and the world will be as ONE.

I do believe that they are not dreaming any more
Christine

To contrast with soem people: I'm very much against abolishing countries. Having countries add spices, flavour to the human world just like ethnicities does. I don't want to go to the other side of the world and see the exact same thing I see at home, with the same people. I want to experience new architecture, new food, new language, new faces, new habits, new thoughts.