What do you or people around you think about Karl Marx?

People do a lot of things for other motivations too. And how do you explain the tribal societies who did not collapse? In those, people who did more than others got prestige and status and that made it work just fine.

I agree that status is a very good motivation metric. It just so happens that wealth might be the best way to assess status. In a communist regime, a high status also correlates with high salary and high power ("some individuals are more equal than others" said a famous writer). Tribal societies "did not collapse" because they basically never developed in the first place (which ones were you thinking of?). Tribalism means you only accept/promote/tolerate what is from within the clan. Anyone from the outside world is de facto considered an existential threat. Tribalism is mostly incompatible with universal peace and prosperity, nor does it relate to communism anyway as they are entirely different paradigms.

People innovate out of kindness. They see a need and know how to fix it and they do. People innovate out of the need for creativity. I think you have a very one-sided view on what people's motivations are

No one innovates purely out of kindness. People who claim to be fully altruistic usually:
- do so at other people's expense (eg: spending other people's money, like through taxes)
- or have a vested interest (eg: influencers/organizations who loudly "give back" to buy themselves a good image)
- and/or have higher than normal narcissistic tendencies
- and/or suffer from the savior complex, which is a psychological disorder
- or simply know they will be direct beneficiaries to such policies because they intend to live off of more productive members of the group.

You seem to imply altruism and capitalism are opposites, but capitalism is just a tool to foster initiative and encourage improvement. It is both individually and collectively healthy to encourage what is productive behavior, and discourage what isn't. It doesn't mean the absence of rules, in fact it requires all parties to willfully participate since individual freedom is a key element of the concept.

And slavery did not exist before farming. In hunter gatherer societies there was no point to slaves, because you need one person to watch one slave, so slavery would not bring benefit. Written history is just a tiny piece of history and that's essentially the part in human history where things started to go wrong

This carefully avoids my questions in regards to capitalist vs communist countries, just like you chose to dismiss the part about "barbaric Europeans who destroyed/enslaved prosperous societies". Does written history include Das Kapital?

Money is absolutely horrible way to measure status, just look at the monsters it puts on top of the hierarchy here. In healthy society, status comes from altruism.

Tribalism can evolve, so that entire humanity is the tribe and if need be, wider than that as well. For a lot of modern people, their country is the tribe they see themselves as belonging to and while that might be enough, people can evolve in their thinking and let their tribe be more than that. In fact, many already do.

People do absolutely innovate from pure kindness, as they do from pure lazy and pure curiosity and pure sense of fun. Just because money would be removed from the motivators does not mean there would be no innovation. There was plenty of innovation in hunter-gatherer societies too, so the we need capitalism to have innovation is absolutely pure bogus.

Productivity can be encouraged without money. If productivity brings status, people will be productive for status. They will also be productive because they like doing what they do or because they see their productivity help someone else. And someone who loves woodworking will be productive in woodworking because they love the process.

There has never been a communist country. The closet to communist societies have been the tribal units.

Also, you don't get paid for being an admin here, I presume. So you are doing this work for non-capitalist motivations. Yet you innovate here all the time, trying to make this a more functional forum. Fancy that.

Money is absolutely horrible way to measure status, just look at the monsters it puts on top of the hierarchy here. In healthy society, status comes from altruism.

Tribalism can evolve, so that entire humanity is the tribe and if need be, wider than that as well. For a lot of modern people, their country is the tribe they see themselves as belonging to and while that might be enough, people can evolve in their thinking and let their tribe be more than that. In fact, many already do.

People do absolutely innovate from pure kindness, as they do from pure lazy and pure curiosity and pure sense of fun. Just because money would be removed from the motivators does not mean there would be no innovation. There was plenty of innovation in hunter-gatherer societies too, so the we need capitalism to have innovation is absolutely pure bogus.

Productivity can be encouraged without money. If productivity brings status, people will be productive for status. They will also be productive because they like doing what they do or because they see their productivity help someone else. And someone who loves woodworking will be productive in woodworking because they love the process.

There has never been a communist country. The closet to communist societies have been the tribal units.

Also, you don't get paid for being an admin here, I presume. So you are doing this work for non-capitalist motivations. Yet you innovate here all the time, trying to make this a more functional forum. Fancy that.

OK, let's assume you are right - currently the closest country to have the real communism is North Korea, so why don't you go there? It should be the best country because it's the closest to communistic ideal. I've heard their labour camps are in demand for workers and they offer great communistic benefits:

- no wage because your personal belongings such as wage are state-owned and in hands of all people (just like Josip Broz Tito who was the only person who has been driving 85 "peoples'-owned" cars because he wanted to take all that burden on himself and Kim Jong Un who is the only one who drinks luxury alcohol in North Korea because he doesn't want his people to get liver failure so he has decided to sacrifice for them)

- free housing with rooms and toilets shared with other 1354531 people in a true spirit of communism

- education using tribal/true communistic methods (🤜🤕)

- family-oriented atmosphere where your children and grandchildren have guaranteed spot there. If they try to leave they will be brought back and re-educated with the usage of the methods described in the line above

- free meals specifically designed for weight loss (loss of 80 percent body mass guaranteed)

- carefree attitude toward retirement because you won't reach that age there

- if you somehow manage to reach the age of retirement then you would have a special benefit - young males can have a haircut up to 5 mm long but old males can let loose and have haircut up to 6 mm long like real rockstars

Why do you use capitalistic products such as Internet and electrical energy? I totally agree that innovations are unnecessary, you could easily survive Finnish Winters without modern housing and electrical energy

I like that you aren't oriented on money and you hate the attitude which puts money at the first place, I am also in the same boat. However, communism isn't better at all, it literally destroys your freedom, creativity, productivity, health and life. Money mustn't be the main motivation for our acts but we need money to buy things (Maslow's hierarchy of needs) and to help others who need help

Also, you don't get paid for being an admin here, I presume. So you are doing this work for non-capitalist motivations. Yet you innovate here all the time, trying to make this a more functional forum. Fancy that.

That's a good example. I spend time and energy trying to improve the community so it can grow and, maybe one day, become profitable. It's an investment. I do it because of what you call "capitalist motivations."

People need to enjoy using PPG because satisfaction is the foundation of the system. In this case, "altruism" turns out to be a hard requirement for my success.

I assume that, based on your morals, you might value someone who's 100% selfless — but unfortunately quite mediocre — more than someone who creates all sorts of things for everyone to enjoy while seeking personal wealth.

Here's a simple test. Would you rather:
A. Poor people have 100 and rich people have 1,000?
B. Poor people have 50 and rich people have 60?

Communists will always choose B, which shows they don't care about the greater good. They only care about equality of outcome, even if it means making everyone poorer in the process. In fact, making everyone poor is even better for them because it's an easy way to enslave their own population by controlling handouts.

OK, let's assume you are right - currently the closest country to have the real communism is North Korea, so why don't you go there? It should be the best country because it's the closest to communistic ideal. I've heard their labour camps are in demand for workers and they offer great communistic benefits:

- no wage because your personal belongings such as wage are state-owned and in hands of all people (just like Josip Broz Tito who was the only person who has been driving 85 "peoples'-owned" cars because he wanted to take all that burden on himself and Kim Jong Un who is the only one who drinks luxury alcohol in North Korea because he doesn't want his people to get liver failure so he has decided to sacrifice for them)

- free housing with rooms and toilets shared with other 1354531 people in a true spirit of communism

- education using tribal/true communistic methods (🤜🤕)

- family-oriented atmosphere where your children and grandchildren have guaranteed spot there. If they try to leave they will be brought back and re-educated with the usage of the methods described in the line above

- free meals specifically designed for weight loss (loss of 80 percent body mass guaranteed)

- carefree attitude toward retirement because you won't reach that age there

- if you somehow manage to reach the age of retirement then you would have a special benefit - young males can have a haircut up to 5 mm long but old males can let loose and have haircut up to 6 mm long like real rockstars

Why do you use capitalistic products such as Internet and electrical energy? I totally agree that innovations are unnecessary, you could easily survive Finnish Winters without modern housing and electrical energy

I like that you aren't oriented on money and you hate the attitude which puts money at the first place, I am also in the same boat. However, communism isn't better at all, it literally destroys your freedom, creativity, productivity, health and life. Money mustn't be the main motivation for our acts but we need money to buy things (Maslow's hierarchy of needs) and to help others who need help

North Korea is not communist, it's a dictatorship masquerading as one. If I wrapped a dog shit into tinfoil and callied it a diamond, would you buy one off of me? I think not. How hard it is for people to actually find out what they are talking about before they start talking about it?

Everyone who bashes Marxism doesn't seem to know what they are talking about. Honestly it's really tiresome.

The closest to socialism there has ever been on this planet is nordic countries and canada and even they are pretty damn far from it.

Everybody knows what is communism except you. Claiming Canada and Nordic countries communistic and claiming dictatorships and North Korea as opposite to communism reveals that you have no idea what are you talking about. This is really a time waste, so I have no intention to engage in this pointless discussion anymore

Korisnik hello mate I just wanted to say I follow Croatia in the World Cup 🙌

Communisn looks pretty on paper but in real life its garbage.

hunter-gatherer tribes where everyone who could work did what they could and all the results of said labour were divided between the tribe's people, weather capable of working or not. These societies were very peaceful, very prosperous and endured for longest of times, usually until Europians or some other barbarians came and destroyed them by killing and enslaving. Know your history.

That sounds a lot that rewriting history and forgetting the archeological sites showing massacres happening between those tribes, as well as how peaceful our cousin species are... The so called prosperity is somewhat debatable too considering the disappearance of a bunch of prey species leading to a change of diet by hunting smaller animals which, ironically, seems to have pressured selection for bigger/more performant brain in humans (not saying it's the only factor).
It's also very likely that slavery, and especially sexual slavery did exist at that time with raids to other tribes. It just was different from the form it took later. Same for human sacrifices.

I'm sure that the evil europians/barbarians idea is seductive though, especially to spit on "booh white boy" that is trendy, even though Neolithic spreads from Middle East and spread later to Europe.


If the goal was to make Marxism reppelling with a caricature, then you succeeded, but for the rest, I'm afraid that it only depicts you as someone who has a problem with some ethnicities and the concept of agriculture.

👆👆Just don't support communism. It's the easiest way to control an entite country in a bad way for the people.

Communisn looks pretty on paper but in real life its garbage.

It doesn't even look good on paper. Call it for what it is.. Marx barely worked a day in his life and would have starved without Engels ...Who I feel is the superior philosopher to Marx

It doesn't even look good on paper. Call it for what it is.. Marx barely worked a day in his life and would have starved without Engels ...Who I feel is the superior philosopher to Marx

I ment that it looks like a heaven to those who dont work.

Marx was just a alcoholic who has alcohol destroy his brain so i agree with you.

I ment that it looks like a heaven to those who dont work.

Marx was just a alcoholic who has alcohol destroy his brain so i agree with you.

Hahaha I know ... Torakka. I was giving you a friendly hard time.

Totally off topic, but I can't find the original "weird marriage customs" forum.

What is the Finnish tradition of leaving a newborn child in the cold, that they become acclimated to the climate? I remember a friend doing this while i was visiting and I remember being totally disturbed by it 🙃

What is the Finnish tradition of leaving a newborn child in the cold, that they become acclimated to the climate? I remember a friend doing this while i was visiting and I remember being totally disturbed by it 🙃

Probably as same as Spartans did

Probably as same as Spartans did

Lol.... not quite as extreme.

Hahaha I know ... Torakka. I was giving you a friendly hard time.

Totally off topic, but I can't find the original "weird marriage customs" forum.

What is the Finnish tradition of leaving a newborn child in the cold, that they become acclimated to the climate? I remember a friend doing this while i was visiting and I remember being totally disturbed by it 🙃

Yea everyone here does that to the babies. I mean its cold here atlest according to you foreingers i think it would be better if it was colder. But that builds immune system so the kids dont die once they step outside. And the clear air helps the baby sleep deeper and longer so less trouble for the parents.

Its not bad comming from a person who slept in a cardboard box my parents just trew out in the snow in -30° degrees when it was time for my nap. And i survived and im as healthy as a ram. (:

Yea everyone here does that to the babies. I mean its cold here atlest according to you foreingers i think it would be better if it was colder. But that builds immune system so the kids dont die once they step outside. And the clear air helps the baby sleep deeper and longer so less trouble for the parents.

Its not bad comming from a person who slept in a cardboard box my parents just trew out in the snow in -30° degrees when it was time for my nap. And i survived and im as healthy as a ram. (:

Hahah. Well I'm glad you made it!

I recall being like.. "what the hell are you doing?! You're just gonna leave him there?!" His wife laughed and explained the logic behind it, and it made sense. And, of course, they bundled him up for the cold. It was just one of those.. "whoa" moments.

Hahah. Well I'm glad you made it!

I recall being like.. "what the hell are you doing?! You're just gonna leave him there?!" His wife laughed and explained the logic behind it, and it made sense. And, of course, they bundled him up for the cold. It was just one of those.. "whoa" moments.

Well it was a close case.

Hahahahah

We finns are build to last.