Should all museums be free? Politics and governments

I have two new statements for who likes to react. If you also have statements that you would like to post that is of course also nice and you can post it below! 🙂

➡️ Do you think that all museums should be free? So the government pays everything and you can go to museums when you want?

➡️ Do you think that there should not be any cars anymore in the city centre so it is safer to walk and bike and it is better for the environment? And you can have like big parking garages around the city centre?

➡️ Nothing is free, it's paid for by others. Should others pay for your activities? I think vital health services, education, and the police/justice system should be funded by taxpayers because they are the backbone of society, but everything else should be your responsibility. Many museums are already subsidized, which I see as wasteful given the jaw dropping debt most western states are buried under. The day you start paying taxes you may start getting my point 😂️

➡️ If you go to Paris you will quickly notice that pedestrians/bikes are often the ones causing accidents 😛️. If you need to park way outside of where you ultimately need to go, it defeats the purpose of having a car. Cars are a definitely an issue in very large cities, but I think they are only the tip of the iceberg. Public transportation in Paris for instance is over saturated, and removing cars can only make things even worse somehow. We should try to aim for many medium sizes towns instead of a handful of oversized cities I think. Again, easier said than done!

➡️ Thank you @Etienne! I already pay some taxes in the shops! So I help with shopping my country!!! 🙂 But I dont buy a lot and I like vinted and it is MUCH cheaper or on marktplaats (that is like vinted in my country). And I dont mind that they use my taxes for museums because that is also like education. And for a lot of people museums are too expensive so they dont go. But I think everybody should have the right to visit it. In my country museums are not free but you can get a CJP pass and you get discounts if you are younger than 30. The CJP pass is free for most people under 30 or you only have to pay 10 Euros now for the first year. So that is nice but you also get discounts in other cultural places than museums.

➡️ For the second statement I think both cars and bikes are dangerous because both can hit me very easy. A lot of people really dont care about the traffic rules and you have to look out really well in a city. For the environment it is maybe a good idea, but why the city centre and not other places instead of it. 🙄🙄

I understand your point, but the thing is there is only so much money in the pool. Say you're a government with an already sky high 50% tax rate, and you collect €10 worth of taxes. You hypothetically need to spend €2 on schools, €4 on hospitals, €3 on pensions, and €2 on the police. You're already over budget and in debt. Would you consider reasonable to raise taxes for everyone to fund artsy outings that only a minority of people would be interested in? This is the very situation most European countries are in (the Netherlands being an exception, don't take it for granted 😛️).

Here is another counterpoint: eating and having a roof under your head is arguably significantly more important than visiting a museum, right? How come you need to work to pay for your own food and rent? If the answer sounds obvious, then the museum analogy should be even more obvious 😁️

It seems appropriate to introduce some nuances in the discussion on the funding of museums and to cross swords with previous contributors in this forum post. I do so with great respect and admiration for the views which have so far been shared with us.

- The cultural sector is part of national heritage. Access to such wealth should not be confined to elite communities, but should be available on a broad scale. Such public access and even the continued existence of various museums - and add a diverse spectrum of other cultural institutions - will be immediately jeopardized in the absence of public funding. If current subsidy levels in various EU countries evaporate, the cultural sector and various iconic institutions with a long and rich cultural history will be decimated. Such funding is not wasteful and protects inhabitants from living in a monotone and culturally depraved society.

- Participation in the cultural sector is not just a plain activity (similar to sewing socks; albeit that the artistic design of Christmas socks is not to be underestimated). There is a reason why cultural outings are part of the curriculum of many primary and high schools in Europe (and hopefully also beyond). They should become part of the national DNA. Current detachment of the cultural sector of various layers of society is to a large extent due to it being inaccessible. Parents who cannot afford tuition fees for music lessons of their young children and financial distress experienced by theatre companies and museums are a common phenomenon. As stated by one of the instructors of our daughters: "I don't just want to teach to rich kids by raising the tuition fee, just in order to survive." This story is echoed by (former) colleagues and other acquaintances who have governance positions at museums in The Netherlands.

- In general, sovereign funding does not merely rely on taxation. Particularly countries where deficit levels are sustainable - there are clear benchmarks in an EU setting - should not refrain from assuming their responsibility to support the cultural sector. The extent to which this is appropriate - e.g. free access to museums or alternative support - is a "case by case" situation. There are various practices - including the excruciating inefficiency of large public bodies - which I deem to be more wasteful than supporting the national cultural sector. I also do believe that the corporate sector should "step up" and enlarge their social footprint to support local communities and other societal endeavours (complementing or occasionally even replacing public funding).

There are various other important considerations which play a role in this discussion (I currently lack the time to engage further). But I think that it suffices to have introduced an alternative view. I do appreciate the views as shared by notably Etienne and Yue (and on another topic above Lianshen). Discussions like these will enrich the forum with regular diving excursions to explore the world below the surface.

Thanks @Savi2024 for taking part in this conversation. I will raise a few challenges, if you allow me to do so:

The cultural sector is part of national heritage. Access to such wealth should not be confined to elite communities, but should be available on a broad scale. Such public access and even the continued existence of various museums - and add a diverse spectrum of other cultural institutions - will be immediately jeopardized in the absence of public funding. If current subsidy levels in various EU countries evaporate, the cultural sector and various iconic institutions with a long and rich cultural history will be decimated.

I think it's the exact opposite: all citizens of the country (working class included) finance museums that elites disproportionately go to.

Why do you assume that museums would immediately disappear? Good/large/iconic museums already are or could easily be profitable. Museums that struggle (or would struggle) financially fail to be on par with what people expect/desire given their cost of operation. If so, they should either adapt to the market or be discontinued because unfit. Museums shouldn't get a free pass just because there is some virtue signaling to state they shall be above any scrutiny.

Such funding is not wasteful and protects inhabitants from living in a monotone and culturally depraved society.

This is both very pessimistic and optimistic of you. Do you really believe that without public funding of museums, we would fall into a depraved society? Coincidentally... do you believe that the public funding of some museums is the holy key that will protect us from a culturally depraved society?

Current detachment of the cultural sector of various layers of society is to a large extent due to it being inaccessible. Parents who cannot afford tuition fees for music lessons of their young children and financial distress experienced by theatre companies and museums are a common phenomenon. As stated by one of the instructors of our daughters: "I don't just want to teach to rich kids by raising the tuition fee, just in order to survive." This story is echoed by (former) colleagues and other acquaintances who have governance positions at museums in The Netherlands.

I know that "I don't want to teach rich kids in order to survive" is meant to sound altruistic, but it strikes me as particularly obnoxious: it implies your colleague expects taxpayers to gracefully pay part of their salary just so that they merely get to choose who they feel like teaching to. Should I also expect them to pay extra taxes so I can have a broader pool of clients to work for? This circles back to the "culure" niche privilege.

In general, sovereign funding does not merely rely on taxation. Particularly countries where deficit levels are sustainable

A deficit by definition is not sustainable (unless ad hoc to invest, which culture can't be considered an economic investment, and definitly not a measurable one)

Countries (...) should not refrain from assuming their responsibility to support the cultural sector. The extent to which this is appropriate - e.g. free access to museums or alternative support - is a "case by case" situation. There are various practices - including the excruciating inefficiency of large public bodies - which I deem to be more wasteful than supporting the national cultural sector.

Definitely agree that large public bodies are a significantly larger issue which absolutely needs to be tackled first. The "culture" funding is an out of principle thing more than anything else, although symptomatic of the inability (read "unwillingness") to spend public money efficiently for those who are in deficit (ie. virtually everyone).

I also do believe that the corporate sector should "step up" and enlarge their social footprint to support local communities and other societal endeavours (complementing or occasionally even replacing public funding).

I wholeheartedly disagree with that: on what base should a business be required to participate in public matters? It should be either the citizen's choice, or in a number of cases the government's responsibility. A few notable problems I can identify with this statement:
- if companies play a role in "societal endeavours", why should they be paying any taxes? The sole purpose of taxation is for the state to be taking care of society. This is a huge Pandora's box.
- most companies are very small. They don't have the time, money, or skill to engage in anything else outside their own operation.
- only large companies can work an influence in the outside world. This is essentially called lobbying (or can easily be turned into a lobbying in disguise), which can quickly backfire.
- a business should not be responsible for anything other than their area of expertise. This should be their sole scope of responsibility, for their own sake but also the sake of the people.

Having said all that, I have probably been sounding like I hate culture, which is very much not the case. I just want my tax money to be used on more critical aspects of society which are in dire need of better funding. Maybe you'll agree with me: what if everyone paid less taxes, but we individually have a budget with which we get to decide what to spend money on? Sounds fairer than arbitrary choices taken by some bureaucrat in the capital. There's a good chance your museums and music schools will end up being covered, too!

We have become accustomed that most countries pour infinite money left and right with no desire to break event. This is a terrible mistake that will be devastating for future generations. Plot twist: what happened to Greece a few years ago, or Argentina more recently, will most definitely happen to Portugal, Italy, and France. Of course I'm aware we're talking about a very tiny amounts of money, but it's symptomatic of the way we spend with no concrete goal in sight.

I will share a few numbers off the top of my head about France (I know the Netherlands are in a much better state - stay strong!!) which will maybe help you understand the root of my stance:
- France has debt of ~3.3 trillon euros. It soared by 1T in the last few years alone.
- France has the highest taxation rate of any other developed nation
- France has the highest spending in social services in the world
- France's education/hospitals/justice/police/military are in absolute shambles
- France has the highest crime rate in Europe
- For each €100 the French government collects, it then proceeds to spend €150

There is an excruciatingly urgent need to cut public funding on virtually everything that isn't absolutely vital, lower taxes so our best people stop emigrating wherever they are treated better, and asbolutely stop this madness of trying to control every possible aspect of society (the UE being a prime example of an equally impending doom). This was all caused by a disastrous government overreach in the last decades, due to the deeply rooted French socialist ideology that has completely tanked the country (they're still at it, too). To be honest I always thought that socialism on paper ought to be the best system in the world, but seeing what France has become I am now absolutely convinced we are in desperate need of a Javier Milei to save us.

I will finish with the elephant in the room: feel free to address my fictitious "real world example", which was meant to put things in perspective and take a step back from a "wouldn't it be cool if X was free?" which no one will ever say no about.

Thanks for reading! 😰️

In my hometown, the permanent exhibitions in the city's museums are always free. Special exhibitions cost extra. I think we need to make sure that everyone has the opportunity to participate in art and culture. People who don't have much money can get a discount on the entrance fee. It's good if everyone has to contribute. Only death is free...that's a saying we have.

I have two new statements for who likes to react. If you also have statements that you would like to post that is of course also nice and you can post it below! 🙂

➡️ Do you think that all museums should be free? So the government pays everything and you can go to museums when you want?

➡️ Do you think that there should not be any cars anymore in the city centre so it is safer to walk and bike and it is better for the environment? And you can have like big parking garages around the city centre?

For museums, no, I don't think so. Because they have to buy the relics and other interesting things that you go to see, which is very expensive. If going to the museum was free, more people would go there and I don't doubt the government would be too greedy to pay for ALL the people who go, so the museums would have less interesting items and it would end up as a cafe or something because they would need more money for the business.

For cars, I don't think they should disappear from cities, although I do think maybe it would be nice if people who walk were a bit more respected. Here in Canada, it happens pretty often that cars pass on the red light just because they see it's the pedestrian light and they don't want to wait for 20 seconds. Plus, if your job is far away, you'll need a car to go there, and it would be unfair if you had to work at a restaurant all your life just because you can't get to the other jobs that are a bit too far. And maybe instead of getting your driving license at 16, you could get it sooner if you're mature enough or ready for it. Busses are crap and I already know the basics to drive, stupid laws!!! Seriously, if they let me take the courses I would already have my license and I would be better at driving than most people in Quebec...

In cities there should be no cars.
But public transport is very poorly equipped. A car-free city is completely unrealistic at the moment, but desirable. In villages, it is impossible to live without cars. There are buses twice a day 😅

As a former museum director, my answer would be a giant "no". There is a plenty of etiquettes for museum visits and if you think that all people are educated enough, you're terribly mistaken. The damage they cause, is already a lot larger than the price they pay for a visit. It should stay as a cultural activity rather than a social activity.

All drugs should be free except of amphetamine because that sh*t is dangerous so we should be paid for taking it

I did not reply yet to my own statements! 😛 Thanks everybody for writing comments! 🙂 That is nice because I think we miss sometimes discussing things on the forum more deeply. But this way we can maybe do that?

1️⃣ I agree with Savi if he means that museums should get money from the government. For me it is the same like sports and playgrounds and museums and zoos and other things. For me it does not matter if they make enough money. Sorry a playground does of course not make money but it is still important to have it of course. And everybody uses them not only a few people and that is also with museums i know because I go a lot with my mom and aunt. For example one of the most popular museums in my country is Nemo and everybody comes there who can pay it. It is a very nice and famous science museum. And there are lot of other examples I know except some museums like Rijksmuseum and Stedelijk where there are mostly paintings. But if it means free: maybe no. But should they get support: for me of course yes and also sports, playgrounds and zoos. Just like happens now because we already had this discussion in class so I also steal some things what they said in my class! 😛

2️⃣ Maybe some parts where people walk A LOT there should not be any cars. Like in Amsterdam some parts you can only walk and there is a tram or a bike part. But the most parts you can go by car. We discussed in our class the news that in some places cars cannot come and a LOT of shops and other things dont get customers anymore or it brings other problems. So for 2 I answer it depends where in a city. Maybe a square or one busy street: no cars. But the rest I think cars can come but should maybe drive slower if it is too dangerous perhaps. 😃

I have two new statements for who likes to react. If you also have statements that you would like to post that is of course also nice and you can post it below! 🙂

➡️ Do you think that all museums should be free? So the government pays everything and you can go to museums when you want?

➡️ Do you think that there should not be any cars anymore in the city centre so it is safer to walk and bike and it is better for the environment? And you can have like big parking garages around the city centre?

well , maybe the low-coal out is more environment-protected than by vehicles, but you need to konw that there're thousands even millions of people need to go to workplace from somewhere is very far , and these traffic tools can decline their power consumption ,and more convient than by a bike or some other low-carbon outing styles, if you are in a rich family ,it's no too much trouble , cos you even can by walking to the companies, but no everybody can own it easily, the government always was pronouncing the protection of circumstance from the past , but they never considered the civil lifes, so appropriate car pass is reasonable, and it can improve the city's economy circulation in certain degree ,of course , different opinion by different people

Of course museums should be free of charge.
The profit is greater when as many people as possible benefit from art and culture.
If the taxpayers' money wasn't all being wasted in a far too large bureaucratic state, there would be enough money for it.

Of course museums should be free of charge.
The profit is greater when as many people as possible benefit from art and culture.
If the taxpayers' money wasn't all being wasted in a far too large bureaucratic state, there would be enough money for it.

Thank you for responding in the forum!! 😊😊 Are you marba or a new member? 🙂

I am marba...well combined Sherlock-Yue

I am marba...well combined Sherlock-Yue

It is VERY nice that you are back Marcus!!!! 😃 We even celebrated your birthday when you were away!! 😛 You can see it here: https://penpal-gate.net/forum/12-everyday-life-and-customs/5353-when-is-your-birthday/16 🤭🤭

I have not seen that...thank you that you did not forgot me...🌻