France's citizens and their representatives are plunging France into national bankruptcy.

What do you think ?

France has a high public debt and what happened today won't help at all. But the situation is not new... Europe will have to intervene.

All the europe country,s has alot off deps

You're right but it's not just that. The difference that can be determined by a stable government or not is the solvency that the state has. It's not just the amount of the debt.

You're right but it's not just that. The difference that can be determined by a stable government or not is the solvency that the state has. It's not just the amount of the debt.

Thank you for explain me @Chantal-

What do you think ?

EU is plunging France for most, which is led partly by the Germans representatives, but mainly is a US colony nowadays.
Kicking a useless government isn't a bad thing to do, as far as I know... The problem will be to replace it by yet another bunch of incompetent leeches.

Maybe before talking about a specific member, we should ask ourselves why EU is giving its brains and free money to other countries?

"mainly is a US colony" yep. Totally agree with you!

What do you think ?

Easy: France is as addicted to social spending as a street crackhead is to heroin. Over half of the population relies (in some form of another) on the state to get money. I recently saw a graph showing that only 33% of the population are true net contributors to society. People will not vote against their own personal interests, just like said crackhead will not stop self destruction on their own.

EU is plunging France for most, which is led partly by the Germans representatives, but mainly is a US colony nowadays.

The EU isn't doing that, France is doing it to itself. The French are not ready to do what is reasonable, unlike what Italy was able to achieve in recent years. If anything, the EU is only slowing down the inevitable collapse of the current system thanks to a shared strong currency. National leaders have chosen to willingly bow down to their idealized EU, just like the EU to the US. The same logic applies to the immigration crisis: Western nations, not migrants, are primarily responsible for opening borders. Our leaders have been deplorable, yet for some reason they keep getting elected. This brings us full circle: perhaps populations are complicit in their mediocrity. 😃

Picture Meloni and Orban leading Germany and France starting today. Do you believe the EU would remain anywhere close to what it is today?

If Meloni and Orban were to unexpectedly rule France and Germany, the EU would not collapse, but it would be a very different beast. Political gridlock would skyrocket, consensus policies would break down, and fights over fiscal austerity, immigration, and welfare policies would intensify. The euro, treaties, and institutions would stick, but the EU's current ethos of integration and compromise would be severely harmed. Structurally intact, politically tense.

Do you think Southern and Eastern EU countries could withstand such leadership, or would tensions push the union toward reform or fragmentation?

Easy: France is as addicted to social spending as a street crackhead is to heroin. Over half of the population relies (in some form of another) on the state to get money. I recently saw a graph showing that only 33% of the population are true net contributors to society. People will not vote against their own personal interests, just like said crackhead will not stop self destruction on their own.

I don't think social spendings is a problem per se, but abuse of it is. We already discussed it and pointing a line where abuse starts seem to be difficult to agree on.

The EU isn't doing that, France is doing it to itself. The French are not ready to do what is reasonable, unlike what Italy was able to achieve in recent years. If anything, the EU is only slowing down the inevitable collapse of the current system thanks to a shared strong currency. National leaders have chosen to willingly bow down to their idealized EU, just like the EU to the US. The same logic applies to the immigration crisis: Western nations, not migrants, are primarily responsible for opening borders. Our leaders have been deplorable, yet for some reason they keep getting elected. This brings us full circle: perhaps populations are complicit in their mediocrity. 😃

Fair enough, but I doubt Italy is much better since EU still got to agree on terms that are similar to China losing the Opium war in my opinion. I wouldn't say that euro is slowing down anything though, as it is dragging EU countries down except for Germany and a few northern countries.

"perhaps populations are complicit in their mediocrity"
Etienne de La Boétie said it very well back then: the people are accomplices of their tyrants.

Picture Meloni and Orban leading Germany and France starting today. Do you believe the EU would remain anywhere close to what it is today?

Honestly, yes. Most of countries in EU are extremely favorable to the US and give up their sovereignty to them. France is a notable exception for this, doubting a little bit of a country that vassalized us at best; and yet.

If Meloni and Orban were to unexpectedly rule France and Germany, the EU would not collapse, but it would be a very different beast. Political gridlock would skyrocket, consensus policies would break down, and fights over fiscal austerity, immigration, and welfare policies would intensify. The euro, treaties, and institutions would stick, but the EU's current ethos of integration and compromise would be severely harmed. Structurally intact, politically tense.

Do you think Southern and Eastern EU countries could withstand such leadership, or would tensions push the union toward reform or fragmentation?

All I meant is that the EU doesn't have to be "bad" or "good", it is mostly "bad" because we've had the same leaders pushing the exact same agenda for decades. An agenda that most European people are very skeptical about, to say the least. That agenda could be different.

I don't think social spendings is a problem per se, but abuse of it is. We already discussed it and pointing a line where abuse starts seem to be difficult to agree on.

Yes, we have. Having 57% of GDP being dedicated to social spending (highest in the world, by far) is most definitely a problem though. The more generous a system is, the more prone it is to abuse. And boy is it generous. 😛

Fair enough, but I doubt Italy is much better

Debt in Italy is much higher than in France (compared to GDP), but it's heading in the right direction. That's why borrowing costs for France have recently surpassed that of Italy. It's not so much how much debt one has, but the steps it's taking to address the issue.

I wouldn't say that euro is slowing down anything though, as it is dragging EU countries down except for Germany and a few northern countries.

Yes you're right that having the same currency isn't ideal. However, the Euro is definitely helping France in that regard, because France is acquiring massive amounts of debt thanks to a high valued currency. It's one of the reasons Germany can get away with so many things when it comes to its industry: it's basically having to support France's debt addiction as a trade off. It's very unhealthy for everyone.

EU is plunging France for most, which is led partly by the Germans representatives, but mainly is a US colony nowadays.
Kicking a useless government isn't a bad thing to do, as far as I know... The problem will be to replace it by yet another bunch of incompetent leeches.

Maybe before talking about a specific member, we should ask ourselves why EU is giving its brains and free money to other countries?

The citizens make france bankrupt not the EU!